Classic cars forum & vehicle restoration.

[Greeney in France]

Prompted by my thread about 6V to 12V electrics I checked the search and although discussed a little we haven't had a thread dedicated to it, so in good old pub discussion stylie what are your views
Here goes...
Originality or somewhere between the whys and wherefores
I will add my views as we go along save taking the whole page up
I am also off out to Limoges today so will join in this evening
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We do these things not to escape life but to prevent life escaping us

[Rick]

I think a lot depends on how you plan to use the vehicle once back on the road

A 'high-days and holidays' vehicle, or something unique, I think should be as original as possible in specification.

If you plan to use the vehicle every day, then I think there may be an argument to subtly fit modifications that improve starting (eg electronic ignition) or charging (eg alternator instead of dynamo). Plus these changes are reversible, so the vehicle could always be returned to original spec at a later date. However if a car is maintained in good nick, even some of these mods may not strictly be necessary.

Everyone will have a different view I suppose. When a Mk2 Jag for instance receives power steering, modern transmission and air con, or a later non-XK engine, I lose interest - why buy an old car then want it to act and behave just like a modern!? give me an original 3.8 with MOD, even if the early boxes are a bit cranky to use, isn't that part of the character of a 40 year old car??

At the full extreme is the custom car, not an arena I know much about unlike some other members on here, so I'll avoid entering that debate

RJ
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[peppiB]

I use my 3 daily (I don't have a 'modern' car) and none are show vehicles, although the Landcrab is totally original and has never been welded - however I have installed a high intensity rear light for safety as I do use it in inclement weather (good as a 4x4 in snow and mud)

I restored my minor, but painted it a non standard colour as the original smoke was drab. It is painted Mercedes China blue, which is similar. It is a 1965 car and I have front seatbelts, but not rear (very rare anyone is actually in the back) I do have an alternator for it, but it is not fitted. The dynamo does the job so until that packs in I will leave it.

Other than the fuel cell I have just added, the Mercedes is untouched and original.

Going around shows I sometimes weep inside at vehicles which have been cut down, mangled, had huge engines shoe-horned in etc, but that is my own opinion. It is a free country and if someone owns a vehicle they want to vandalise (or should that be customise?) it is up to them. Occasionally someone takes an unrestorable wreck and creates an eye catching rod, and I do applaud people who go down that road - at least it is still on the road, albeit hardly recognisable.

[peter scott]

I think you should be able to look under the bonnet and not see a single thing that destroys the illusion that you are back in the period of the vehicle's hey day. I'm afraid that just because someone has painted their modern coil black it still doesn't disguise it's wrong shape.

It's just like with period films. They are completely ruined by the sight of TV aerials, jet vapour trails and modern electric fittings.

Peter
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1939 SS Jaguar 2 1/2 litre saloon

[Rick]

I agree, I think aesthetics does come into it, at least for me. For instance my Devon runs on radials, but sometime I'd like to put it back onto crossplies simply because radials look totally out of place.

When new, some cars lent themselves to tweaks and upgrades, such as the Mini or 105E, and in-period mods such as twin SUs or a Shorrock supercharger are fine with me. Its later add-ons that grate, even if they do 'improve' the function of the car.

But, everyone to their own!!

R
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[Uncle Joe]

Over the years, I've had this discussion about originality several times. its always ended up with the same answer. Originality doesn't exist. It cant! What we call originality today is nothing more than an illusion. The word illusion is just another meaning for the word false.

Using Ricks hypothetical Jag as an example, if Stirling Moss or one of the other greats had ordered a similar car from new, then that car would have been considered special, and therefore beyond value. But if Joe Bloggs had done the same thing, maybe because he was handicapped, then that same car would have no value today, unless it was put back into original condition.

Classic cars are fun, and the more fun we can have with them the better. If that means doing some kind of a change to them, in my opinion, its perfectly acceptable. On one condition. That the change can be reversed at some point in the future.

[peter scott]

UJ you are quite correct originality is just an illusion but it's not too difficult to preserve it and equally it is all too easy to destroy it and take away a very
large part of playing with old stuff.

If I didn't believe this I would swap my old Jag for a Beauford tommorow.

Peter
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http://www.nostalgiatech.co.uk
1939 SS Jaguar 2 1/2 litre saloon

[dalbuie]

Thankfully those in charge of the worlds antiquities don't agree with the originality angle, or the idea of changing things to make them safer/more efficient or cheaper to run.

Otherwise we might see the The Sistine Chapel windows double glazed or the Taj Mahal pebble dashed and insulated

[Uncle Joe]

Whichever way you look at it, originality is STILL an illusion....are we still running original tyres? Oil? petrol? Brake parts? No. Therefore, its not original.

[peter scott]

Tyres are made from the original moulds and thus look the same as they always did. I think for most people oil and petrol are invisible and
unless you are making radical changes then brakes won't look any different either.

What matters is that you don't spoil the illusion by installing items that look different from the original.

I am totally in sympathy with dalbuie's conservator approach but for most things I'd prefer them to work and this may not always be possible with original parts (which can be unobtainable.)

Peter
_________________
http://www.nostalgiatech.co.uk
1939 SS Jaguar 2 1/2 litre saloon

[Uncle Joe]

I'm in full agreement with you there, Peter...

[peter scott]

_________________
http://www.nostalgiatech.co.uk
1939 SS Jaguar 2 1/2 litre saloon

[Rick]

[Greeney in France]

[peter scott]

[quote="Greeney in France"]