Classic cars forum & vehicle restoration.

Greeney in France · Posted: Sun Aug 31, 2008 10:37 pm Post subject: 6 to 12 Volt electrics

Whats the verdict, should I change the Traction from 6V to 12V electrics
How easy is it, is the wiring sufficiently strong enough to cope or do I have to re-loom
Who has done it already
_________________
www.OldFrenchCars.com

We do these things not to escape life but to prevent life escaping us

47Jag · Posted: Sun Aug 31, 2008 10:48 pm Post subject:

Greeney,

You should have no worries about the wiring as on a 6 volt system it would be carrying twice as much current to do the same work. You could keep the starter but will have to change the dynamo and of course all the bulbs. What signals does it have? Semaphores will need to be changed.

Art

peter scott · Joined: 18 Dec 2007 Posts: 7126 Location: Edinburgh

The loom should be more than capable since all your currents will be reducing and there is no real difference between insulating for 6v or 12v
but my vote would be for originality.

Peter
_________________
http://www.nostalgiatech.co.uk
1939 SS Jaguar 2 1/2 litre saloon

Rick · Site Admin Joined: 27 Apr 2005 Posts: 22477 Location: UK

I'm pondering the self same question too, its been debated here before and there are two distinct camps - one for originality (after all 6v worked well enough 'back in the day'), and those who opt for the certain advantages that 12v may bring, such as improved lighting or faster cranking of the engine.

The Dodge was originally on 6v, but I'm musing over whether I should opt for 12 on that for a number of reasons. Hmmm

R
_________________
Rick - Admin
Home:https://www.oldclassiccar.co.uk
Videos:https://www.youtube.com/user/oldclassiccarRJ/videos
OCC & classic car merchandise (Austin, Ford ++):
https://www.redbubble.com/people/OldClassicCar/shop

Greeney in France · Posted: Mon Sep 01, 2008 7:21 am Post subject:

I guessed it would encourage a mini skirmish about originality but I have said it before that although I have got involved in concours competitions I think that improvements undertaken with a bit of integrity are ok. I think keeping original is OK for the occasional sunny day out but I also like to use the cars regularly so having the opportunity of better safer lighting would be a good benefit I would like to fit a 123 ignition distributor on her for more reliable starting
I have seen 12V alternators that look like the original dynamos.
Liking music when I travel (even if it is the "maigret" theme tune or "Edith piaf") a 12V system would allow a decent, discrete sound system albeit with a period look.
I am sure all sorts of "young whipper-snapper" comment will ensue but I don't just want to polish it, drive it 5klm and put it back
One of the difficulties will be finding a 12V battery small enough or relocating it as it is a small tray, possible a 2CV battery would suffice but haven't measured Rolling Eyes

_________________
www.OldFrenchCars.com

We do these things not to escape life but to prevent life escaping us

buzzy bee · Joined: 23 Nov 2007 Posts: 3382 Location: South Cheshire

Hi

I wouldn't think small batteries would be an issue, not by what I saw in the battery shop the other day.

I pondered over this last year, but stuck with 6V, sometimes I wonder if I should have swapped to 12, but on a whole, am glad I left it original. If I had changed it, I think I would have regretted it, so if you are going to make the change, be sure about it. I would leave well alown personally.

Cheers

Dave

Uncle Joe · Guest

Ive got rather strong views on this subject, and most of the long time forum members know them. If the possibility to change to 12v. exists, do it. Plain and simple. In the case of Ricks Dodge, I would have been looking into a 24v conversion by now if I had been its owner...

Greeneys comments are really spot on. Its not a question of whether it worked ''back in the day'' or not. Things have changed since then. 12v WILL not only make classics more reliable, but safer as well.

To draw a parallel, fitting seat belts to classics has been debated a number of times on here. Most people seem to think that they are a good idea because in their eyes, they improve safety. In that case, they dont give a hoot about originality. But mention a 12v conversion, and suddenly originality is an issue.

Whatever happened to being consequential?

Greeney in France · Posted: Mon Sep 01, 2008 7:53 am Post subject:

Rick · Site Admin Joined: 27 Apr 2005 Posts: 22477 Location: UK

The only reasons I'm considering 12v on the Dodge is:

- I don't have to have a dedicated 6v battery to keep charged up, bearing in mind the vehicle won't be used too frequently. If I run 12v I could keep the battery in use on other vehicles the rest of the time
- I can jump start it if necessary from any other car at a show if needs be, or I could use a battery from another old (12v) car if push came to shove
- I'd have the option of discretely fitting an electric winch in the back

There is a possible safety issue but I think this is fairly negligible on anything other than a daily user. To be honest for an occasional-use vehicle I don't have a problem with running 6v lighting, especially as it'd mainly be driven in the better months, when evenings are longer anyway. If I were to switch to 12v, I'd not be able to use all the correct Chrysler parts that I've already managed to source, so it would look quite unoriginal under the bonnet, and on something that is a one-off I think originality is preferable.

Veteran car owners stick with their acetylene lamps and hand cranking, without feeling a need to upgrade to much more recent technology, so in most cases I don't see any need to run 12v instead of 6, bar the few reasons I've already mooted. As yet I've not decided which way to go with the truck.

When I ran my E83W I ran on 6v and had no problems whatsoever.

R
_________________
Rick - Admin
Home:https://www.oldclassiccar.co.uk
Videos:https://www.youtube.com/user/oldclassiccarRJ/videos
OCC & classic car merchandise (Austin, Ford ++):
https://www.redbubble.com/people/OldClassicCar/shop

Uncle Joe · Guest

This last answer emphasises my comment about being consequential. ''keeping a one off original'' and in a previous sentence ''discretely fitting a winch.''

Converting to 12v does have the advantages mentioned, ie, being able to get a jump start at a show. On the other hand, 6v is more likely to need one....

Theres one reason that 12v is not considered a safety thing. Its been rammed down our throats that safety belts save lives, that radials are better than crossplies. Noone has ever rammed down our throats that 12v systems save lives....Thats the difference.

peter scott · Joined: 18 Dec 2007 Posts: 7126 Location: Edinburgh

I have to admit that I'm a traitor to my cause and have converted my brakes from single to twin leading shoe on the fronts (a totally invisible change) and also fitted a larger capacity oil pump (again totally invisible) and I use synthetic oils but a battery is a very obvious item and I don't think you will find a 12 volter that has the proportions of a 6 volt.

The safety issue is easy to resolve with halogen bulbs:
http://www.classicandvintagebulbs.com/page3.html

Peter
_________________
http://www.nostalgiatech.co.uk
1939 SS Jaguar 2 1/2 litre saloon

Uncle Joe · Guest

Small 12v batteries do exist, or at least, I hope that they still do! I need one for my Goggomobil...

As far as the lighting on that is concerned, I've just ordered a dedicated HID conversion, less wattage, more light. more light is something that is needed in a country that doesnt have Cats Eyes in the road....

Greeney in France · Posted: Mon Sep 01, 2008 4:45 pm Post subject:

France does not have cats eyes either and sometimes in my classics driving at night is deadly with the winding roads. Ok with the DS obviously as they precede the corner with the swivelling head lamps, I am very undecided but for me it would have to look right too
_________________
www.OldFrenchCars.com

We do these things not to escape life but to prevent life escaping us

Uncle Joe · Guest

One of my rules is that if its something that can be changed back, then there shouldnt be any reason not to do it. HID's on the Goggo wont look right, but on the other hand, they are reasonably easy to change back. Maybe the biggest problem is that auto electrics are still a black art...

So do it.....! Laughing

dalbuie · Joined: 24 Dec 2007 Posts: 408 Location: Gullane

For me the whole reason to have a classic is to have a vehicle from the past, and use exactly what they used then.

If you want seatbelts, 12v electrics, disk brakes and reliability buy a new car. I'm not against new cars, I have one if I need to get somewhere quickly and without incident. If I want to have some fun then I'll use a classic.

Stick with 6v and leave a spare battery on charge.