Classic cars forum & vehicle restoration.

[Greeney in France]

I have been in contact with UJ for a few months by email and after he decided to leave the forum he emailed me to explain a few things.
He did say that I was allowed to post his grievance and I have decided to out of no other reason than diplomacy
HE SAID;
"There have been several incidents over the last few months that have made me doubt whether or not to leave the forum. I could however, be persuaded to return. In order to do so, I would have to have a couple of conditions fulfilled though. First, I would like say 10 members plus Rick to ask me back. Second, I would like it to be made a forum rule that if any member is involved in making money out of classics, be it through repairs, hire or whatever, then this was made clear. It could easily be done if for example when members fill in location (visible when posting) they put say ‘’Trade, Essex’’ or wherever they hail from. Failure to do so would result in a permanent forum ban"
Where you take it from there is your decision and I am just the messenger. I also spoke to Admin and he suggested to put it on the forum for the forum to speak

_________________
www.OldFrenchCars.com

We do these things not to escape life but to prevent life escaping us

[62rebel]

consider my vote available as a request that he return. and i sell auto parts retail for a living; not just classic car parts. thanks very much.

[dalbuie]

I don't post a great deal to this forum, but watch and read a lot.

This is easily the best forum I am a member of and I think it would be spoiled by any rules about what users must divulge about themselves and what they can or can't do.

There are more than enough rules and regulations pushed onto us by government - lets hope Rick allows this forum continue to be free.

[peter scott]

It's Rick's forum and I've really enjoyed the sensible and easy going nature of it and have no desire to influence his decisions on how he runs it.

I can sort of see where UJ is coming from in as much as I would be unhappy if e.g. an author published a book, containing material that I had freely provided, and omitted any acknowledgement. However, I don't believe that having professional forum members taking advice is quite analogous to this and I don't believe that the flow of advice between "us" and "them" would be other than mutually beneficial.

I'm sure that many forum members have benefitted from UJ's advice but what is the difference between that advice possibly saving them money and that advice saving a professional money. In both cases the individuals benefit at no cost to the giver and it is certainly my experience that professionals in the old car world are happy to give freely of their advice when you need it. There will always be some imbalance between givers and receivers but I don't believe any of us could generalise as to which camp the professionals would fall into.

I've already said that I hoped UJ would change his mind and return to his active participation and I hope he'll count me as one of his ten members.

Peter
_________________
https://www.nostalgiatech.co.uk
1939 SS Jaguar 2 1/2 litre saloon

[Rick]

I was a little surprised to hear of this, only one day after UJ requested to be removed from the forum.

UJ has been a supporter from the early days of the forum, however I wholly disagree with the tone and content of his post(s) in reply to
Glenn's cylinder head gasket query, and I think the latter was made to feel very unwelcome. I spend a lot of time working
on this forum to keep it a pleasant and useful place, and replies such as UJ's went against everything I try to do with this forum. He asked to
be removed yesterday, so I de-activated his account. Now he is open to being persuaded to return, which I find a bit rich.

I have no intention of re-wording the forum rules (not that there are many anyway), adding to my workload vetting members old and new to
check for their business interests (!), or anything else in order to 'persuade' one former member to rejoin. Where would that end? And as for
banning people who have a business interest in old cars, and who don't declare this to everyone, well!! not a chance.

How do you define a business or income derived in some way from the classic car world? does this include part time autojumblers, restorers, dealers, or maybe even those who write about cars and sell their articles, perhaps to magazines? I find this interesting as UJ was discussing writing a book about car restoration a little while ago, so if this was to be sold, rather than given away freely, would this make him, quote: "involved in making money out of classics"?

Expecting me to manually vet over 600 current members, and all future members, is farcical to be honest, and completely, wholly, unnecessary. And then to permanently ban the offenders from the forum...! what kind of a message would that give out?

I couldn't care less if someone is involved in the commercial side of the classic car game, and I'd never ask people to divulge private information about their income streams before allowing them to post. This is a classic car forum for heaven's sake, not the Inland Revenue! A mix of private enthusiasts, and members involved in some way with the classic car business, makes for a useful mixture of experience and views I think. If people wish to let others know what they do for a job, then so be it. But to demand this or else risk the boot isn't going to happen here.

The forum is as it is, and evolves as time goes by, usually after I consult with the members to see what they think. To date this has worked
quite well. This hopefully suits the majority, and if this no longer suits, then people can and will vote with their feet (or mouse). I am not going to add to my workload considerably, and re-organise the forum and its T&Cs, and then go cap in hand to one former member who believes we should all adopt his conditions for membership, pleading for him to re-consider joining us.

Rather than suggest that we might be able to persuade him to return, I'm more inclined to think that UJ should be apologising to Glenn for his posts, and thereafter hope that we'll take him back. It takes a lot to rattle me but this sequence of events has succeeded.

My last word on the matter! now, please, back to old cars

Rick
_________________
Rick - Admin
Home:https://www.oldclassiccar.co.uk
Videos:https://www.youtube.com/user/oldclassiccarRJ/videos
OCC & classic car merchandise (Austin, Ford ++):
https://www.redbubble.com/people/OldClassicCar/shop

[Greeney in France]

I am one of the positive voters also.
I have already made it clear that I don't entirely agree with UJs ideas to him personally by email but as Peter said you can see where he is coming from. I think sometimes we can all be over sensitive to "words on a page" as they don't carry the emotion or the face behind them but even though UJ has a few Kooky ways about him I think his input was invaluable and hope he can return with a compromise, in the end we all take something away from this forum and my thanks go to Rick for doing the housekeeping so efficiently.
_________________
www.OldFrenchCars.com

We do these things not to escape life but to prevent life escaping us

[Rick]

I'd consider letting UJ return because a number of the people in this thread have expressed a respect for his advice and contributions.

However for this to happen the following would need to happen on his part:

a. he approached me directly and not via a 3rd party.
b. he apologised for 'going off on one a bit' with Glenn, and that apology being added by me to the end of that thread.
c. and accepted that there would be no acquiescence on my part to his personal list of demands for forum change, because as I've already said, that isn't happening.

I can't say fairer than that.

I'm just trying to find a balance that supports the interests of *all* the regular forum users, not just one, while keeping the forum on something of an even keel. I've seen a number of forums implode thanks to friction between members, and I'll do what I can to avoid that happening here.

Rick.
_________________
Rick - Admin
Home:https://www.oldclassiccar.co.uk
Videos:https://www.youtube.com/user/oldclassiccarRJ/videos
OCC & classic car merchandise (Austin, Ford ++):
https://www.redbubble.com/people/OldClassicCar/shop

[PAUL BEAUMONT]

I have already posted on this topic, and I think that Rick's stance is level headed and fair.
Surely our interest should be to see classic vehicles restored and used. I am blessed with a degree of mechanical aptitude and would prefer to buy a tool so that I can do the job myself - at least that way when it falls off again I'll know what to do!. But not everyone is so fortunate. Many classic owners rely on the services of the likes of Glenn to keep their vehicles on the road. Many of these people are sympathetic to older vehicles and offer their services at less than the market rate. What is so wrong about asking advice on the forum? they would not get banned from the pub for doing it there? it would be a wonderful business that could competently deal with everything from an Alldays and Onions to a Mk1 Zodiac without reference to someone who has specialist knowledge - and the last time I checked Halfords were clean out of the Haynes manual for an Alldays and Onions.
Lets face it if we charge a mechanic for advice guess who will end up paying for it!
Come on UJ for the sake of the vehicles that need your expertise REJOIN!
PAUL

[wrinx]

[xkjag-nz]

have to say i agree with rick, as a professional engineer (31 years and counting in marine engineering) i am more than happy to offer and take advice on any aspect of motoring, nobody knows everything, as i have found having left the RN and joined the RNZN, and i have spent the last year asking "how does that work" from all sorts many considerably junior to me, all advice has been gratefully received

[buzzy bee]

Hi

I was in the trade for a short time, restoring cars, and I was part of the forum, I am affraid it make no difference in my mind, there is deffinateley no need to say whether you are trading or not before posting, and if there was a need it would be a very unwelcome rule.

UJ, saying that is like saying you have never asked for advice about your line of work. I am sure everyone have knowingly and unknowingly taken advice without payment to further there career, and to help out in a job they are doing. I do it all the time!

I am behind Rick one hundred percent, if you want to be coming back then you are the one that needs to apologise for being out of line, and should be asking us to come back. Asking for ten people to request you come back shows a differnt side, which I don't really like. If you are reading this, think hard about what you have said on the forum and to greeny, and then get in touch.

I am not trying to be harsh about this, but I feel strongly about things like this, I had a rather strong discussion with someone face to face about a simmilar thing a few weeks ago.

I say Rick is running the forum fair, and I know rick both from the forum and locally, he is a nice fair chap, so he has my support. Keep it as it is.

I have said my piece on the matter, and that is all I will say.

Cheers

Dave

[peppiB]

As another fairly new member, I have thought long and hard before posting as well. This is a friendly forum, more like mates chatting and exchanging thoughts and ideas and offering help where they can. To introduce a system where A wont talk to or help B because B happens to be a trader defeats the the ethos of the whole thing. This is a good format you are running Rick - all credit to you.

[ukdave2002]

We all see the occasional red mist and can act irrationally, normally then after a period of reflection see sense and eat our humble pie. So I was somewhat surprised not to see an apology to Glen but instead some egotistical and divisive terms on which UJ would return, elements of which are hypocritical as UJ is publishing a book on restoration techniques so stands to gain more from this forum than most.

I for one have valued UJ contributions, advice and experience but not at the expense of disrupting the best forum I have come across. UJ the ball is very much in your court.

Dave

[oldtimer]

Hello.
I have always enjoyed the forum since Ifound it and Rick has the ideal
balance, approach and benign oversight that makes the site special in my
opinion.I dont often post,lack of expertise ,not lack of interest, but I had occasion to find myself at odds with UJ in thepast when he proposed that people who did not meet a specified quota of posts should be removed
from membership!
It is good to have healthy discussion among members but Ihave long felt UJ loves to hog the limelight and his absence will bother me not at all


oldtimer

[Rich5ltr]

Oh dear, oh dear... what a fuss about nothing! I've just read the thread that offended UJ so much and all I can say is he should get over it. Glenn asked a reasonable question, mentioning that the car had "come into his workshop" and was looking for help, isn't that what the classic car scene is all about? I really can't see what there is to get stressed about but if UJ doesn't like it fine, he's voted with his feet and gone. Asking for ten people to vote him back is like child's a cry for attention, which, from my experience of parenting, one is usually advised to ignore .