Classic cars forum & vehicle restoration.

[Nic Jarman]

I found this site while looking for a joggle tool.
http://www.frost.co.uk/how_do_i_explained.asp?hdID=16
There is other good stuff on this site.
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1936 Morris 8 Series 1
1973 MGB roadster
1977 MG Midget 1500
Dax Rush

[P3steve]

Here are two more sites that have info on leadloading

http://freespace.virgin.net/tommy.sandham/leading.htm

http://www.sovereigncoachworks.com/page2/page2.html

[Kelsham]

Whats the concensus of opinion, I have a set of front wings for my 1931 BSA Front Wheel drive fourwheeler.
They require extensive rebuilding. Would lead loading fill small holes and stay in place. Will it be prone to rust underneath. Or should I just use fibre glass?

regards Kels.

[Jim.Walker]

Filling any holes in body panels by any method is not a good idea, except (maybe) where it is possible to paint and maintain the back of the panel regularly. The back of the repair will continue to rust and the corrosion will begin to eat into the edges if the hole allowing water to percolate in, enabling more corrosion. The end result will be rust blebs re-appearing in the outer finish. Not maybe for years, but it will happen

The only real cure is to cut out the corroded part and BUTT weld new metal into place with no holes in the weld. Welding or brazing or soldering a new piece on the back just leaves a sandwich which will also attract and trap water.

Modern fillers are wonderful for finishing over a repair, but they will not stop rust from behind.
_________________
Quote from my late Dad:- You only need a woman and a car and you have all the problems you
are ever likely to want". Computers had not been invented then!

[Kelsham]

Thanks for the reply Jim, you have confirmed my suspicions, I once owned a 1948 Standard 12 Coupe.
It had been repaired by lead loading and it had begun to rust round the edges.

Looks like I will have to resort to welding. regards Kels.

[P3steve]

Have you thought of brazing any small pin holes etc

[ukdave2002]

I have solderd in small non structural patch repairs with a lap joint, but always "tin" both sides of the joint first, this gives good protection against future corrosion as solder flows with a capilery action so the joint is really well sealed.

My body work tutor at college woud some times run braze in to seams to protect them, this is fine as long as you never need to weld the area, as the weld won't take on the brass.

[Kelsham]

Yes I could braze pinholes, but have plug holes. I was wondering if lead would fill them in. regards Kels

[Jim.Walker]

I have a car with a coach built body. The roof was formed in three sections; The main part (almost flat) is seamed to the rounded side pieces and was lead loaded at manufacture by the coach builders (Carbodies). I have two beautiful rows of rust blebs along the entire length of the roof, which will be very difficult and time-consuming to correct.
I think I have said enough.
_________________
Quote from my late Dad:- You only need a woman and a car and you have all the problems you
are ever likely to want". Computers had not been invented then!

[Jim.Walker]

While I was typing my last reply, UKDAVE2002 posted a reply.
He mentions his tutor at college and his methods.
I found out long ago that most vehicle body repairers never saw the long term results of their repairs. They probably never again met the vehicles they had worked on to assess the results.
My Family operated about 30 vehicles all year round in all kinds of weather. About one third of these were Limousines for weddings and funerals. Over many years ranging from Rolls Royces, through Daimlers, Austins and Humbers etc.
Contrary to popular belief those cars tended to be just as rust-prone as ordinary cars. As we might retain these vehicles for upwards of ten years (and did all our own mechanical, electrical and bodywork repairs), we found out the hard way what kind of repairs on bodywork lasted longest.
Cutting out rotten metal and welding in new was far and away the best. Partly because the heat of welding killed all the remaining rust in the vicinity of the repair. Lead loading lasted fairly well, but had two disadvantages:- 1. It is impossible to clear all rust which will creep back into the repair, lifting the lead. 2 Active (or acid) flux such as Killed Spirits or Bakers Fluid must be used on steel and there will always be residues in the joint which cannot be washed away and which initiates new corrosion.
Make your own choice, but I speak from hard learned experience.
_________________
Quote from my late Dad:- You only need a woman and a car and you have all the problems you
are ever likely to want". Computers had not been invented then!

[Phil - Nottingham]

If you look on a lot of 19830's cars and higher quality coach bulit steel bodied cars yoy will signs of the laed lifting where the steel has disappeared.

In renewing the sills of my 1938 Rover 16 "<Coachwork>" the lead loadining at the botom of the the A, B/C and D posts was over 1/82 thick in places and in some parts there was no sign of steel as had long rusted away.

The joints that were intact were gaswelded and hammed well below the level with what looked to be be a rough coal hammer before nicley finishing off with lead.

Still it lasted 60 years
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Rover P2
Rover P4
Rover P5 & P5B
Land Rover S2 & S3
Morris Mini Traveller Mk2

[ukdave2002]

[Phil - Nottingham]

You cannot weld rust so if you try it falls out and is replaced by weld metal. Its where rsuty steel is left under neath lapped joints there will be a problem although its beeter to neutralise this to make it last longer
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Rover P2
Rover P4
Rover P5 & P5B
Land Rover S2 & S3
Morris Mini Traveller Mk2

[Jim.Walker]

Dave (UKDAVE2002)

Rust is oxidised steel. In the redhot and extremely hot area around a weld the oxygen will be burnt out of the rust and the residue is no longer rust. That residue can be easily cleaned off and painted in BUTT joints. As long as the surrounding area is not corroded away it should be possible to treat any remaining surface rust with suitable "killer" before painting. Of course gas welding is the most effective at this. Of course "rust burning" is an acceptable way of destroying rust, but NOT on thin bodywork because of distortion.

A past experience has just come to mind which might be worth mentioning. Years ago I found the flange behind the headlamps on an
Austin A60 were very badly corroded on the surface. To stall the repair until I had time to tackle it properly I gave them a quick rub over with Emery Cloth and painted them with Kurust.
When I came to sort them out properly and removed the headlamps they looked sound with the Kurust still looking good. As soon as I touched them the whole lot crumbled! The rust having been merrily carrying on under the Kurust! All I had left was a jagged hole in the front of each wing.
Now: have I been unwise in mentioning a name?
_________________
Quote from my late Dad:- You only need a woman and a car and you have all the problems you
are ever likely to want". Computers had not been invented then!

[ukdave2002]

Thanks Jim I shall give that a go, and let you know in 10 years time how well it works