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Frozen?
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buzzy bee



Joined: 23 Nov 2007
Posts: 3397
Location: South Cheshire

PostPosted: Sat Jan 09, 2010 12:49 am    Post subject: Frozen? Reply with quote

Hi

What are the thoughts on water?

Best to leave them empty, or full of antifreeze mix?

I got to the shed today about 4pm, and everything was frozen, water wize, and that was with a 33% mix, just huge ammounts of blue ice everywhere! So if I do replace the water it will be a 1:1 mix safe it says to -36.

Just got home after spending all evening warming the shed/vehicles up, spent 100 on gas and heaters to do this mind!

The tractor, I notice had water or ice leaking from the core plugs, so does this mean they will need replacing now?

I can't see any external cracks on the tractor, but hard to tell, and imposible to see on any of the cars, and could be internal anyway, so will have to pressure test them, when it warms up, sooner rather than later so I am not wondering if or not it has caused damage!

Any advice/thoughts apriciated!

P.S... Whilst heating the shed, we had all the fun of the fair trying to feed the cows, as both tractors have frozen diesel, did them by hand in the end! Will have to add looking over them tractors to tomorows jobs!

Cheers

A very Tired Dave
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47p2



Joined: 24 Nov 2007
Posts: 2002
Location: Glasgow

PostPosted: Sat Jan 09, 2010 1:05 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Minimum 50% anti-freeze, not only does it prevent freezing but also acts as a rust inhibitor. At the very least drain the water out, you have to make sure you have all the water out the system though.

Looks like you will be replacing the core plugs

Don't try starting any of the engines until you are sure they have thawed out properly
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buzzy bee



Joined: 23 Nov 2007
Posts: 3397
Location: South Cheshire

PostPosted: Sat Jan 09, 2010 2:23 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Hi

Each system has the tap/pipe at the lowest point removed at the moment, and I think I will have to do a 1:1 mix, the ruddy bottle says severe winter 33% mix! not to worry.

I might get the pressure tester out tomorow, if I can find it in the tool stores, and test them, do the plugs need replacing if the pressure test comes out good?

Think I might buy each engine an electric blanket!

Cheers

Dave
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47p2



Joined: 24 Nov 2007
Posts: 2002
Location: Glasgow

PostPosted: Sat Jan 09, 2010 8:25 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

You need to have the engines thawed to get them to drain.
If a core plug is showing signs of leakage you might be able to tap it back into place, but for all they cost it's best changing them, an easy enough job on a tractor I would have thought.

Don't pressure test until the engine has completely thawed out
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peter scott



Joined: 18 Dec 2007
Posts: 6229
Location: Edinburgh

PostPosted: Sat Jan 09, 2010 10:08 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Hi Dave,

With coldest temperature in the UK recorded as -22C I find it difficult to believe that you are frozen with 33% mix.

I think I would change to another brand of antifreeze.

Beware! Some horrible accessory shops sell stuff as antifreeze that if you read the small print actually turns out to be ready mixed water and antifreeze.

Peter
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buzzy bee



Joined: 23 Nov 2007
Posts: 3397
Location: South Cheshire

PostPosted: Sat Jan 09, 2010 10:30 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Hi

Yeah it is easy bar one on a tractor, bet that one leaks! I will have a look in the light, and see whats what.

It should be thawed out now the heating was on, Imean it was running out of the drain holes, and then stopped, but I will take your advice and pressure test it when it is warmer.

It should protect to -35 with 1:1, not sure what with 33%, it says "very seververe winter". Then again it has been very severe so far! he he Laughing

Right off out to look at the tractors and jcb with frozen diesel now....
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Uncle Alec



Joined: 14 Jan 2008
Posts: 736
Location: Manchester

PostPosted: Sat Jan 09, 2010 11:55 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

There are engines - pre-war Riley 6s and post-war Riley 2s to name two - that have water jacket areas below the drain plug believe it or not. So even if you open or remove the drain plug and drain the coolant they will still freeze and crack. Keep antifreeze mix in all year in these engines.
Know your engine. If you don't, seek advice.
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peter scott



Joined: 18 Dec 2007
Posts: 6229
Location: Edinburgh

PostPosted: Sat Jan 09, 2010 12:04 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Sadly true: http://www.oldclassiccar.co.uk/forum/phpbb/phpBB2/viewtopic.php?t=8261
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buzzy bee



Joined: 23 Nov 2007
Posts: 3397
Location: South Cheshire

PostPosted: Sat Jan 09, 2010 12:20 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Uncle Alec wrote:
There are engines - pre-war Riley 6s and post-war Riley 2s to name two - that have water jacket areas below the drain plug believe it or not. So even if you open or remove the drain plug and drain the coolant they will still freeze and crack. Keep antifreeze mix in all year in these engines.
Know your engine. If you don't, seek advice.


Well I can't do much about it now can I, If it is frozen under the plug, no good refilling the top half with antifreeze is it?

Cheers

Dave
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Jim.Walker



Joined: 27 Dec 2008
Posts: 1233
Location: Chesterfield

PostPosted: Sat Jan 09, 2010 1:32 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Water in the cooling system soon turns stale with constant heating and cooling and as such contains little oxygen. Draining and re-filling introduces fresh water with lots of dissolved oxygen which will rapidly cause rusting, which will first show up as leaking core plugs.

For that reason alone draining a system to prevent freezing is a bad idea even if you can guarantee all the water is removed. Use good antifreeze. Before antifreeze was commonly used, replacing rusted core plugs was a very frequent job!

Without checking I think a 25% solution will give full protection down to about -8 degrees C and "slushy" protection to well below that. Slushy antifreeze will not crack blocks etc., but the engine will probably boil if run.

Driving a vehicle without antifreeze at less than freezing point is chancy anyway because the lower part of the radiator may freeze and cause a head boil.
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buzzy bee



Joined: 23 Nov 2007
Posts: 3397
Location: South Cheshire

PostPosted: Sat Jan 09, 2010 6:11 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Hi

Well they are left drained this evening, and then I will refill the tractor and the mini with 1:1 which should be good to -35 aparently. The ford isn't running at the moment, so that will have to stay drained untill I get it into a running state, as to mix it round the system etc!

Just bought 25 litres, the last 25 litres I add that I could find! the mini probably takes about 4 or 5 litres, the tractor takes just over 15 I think, and then the ford will have a bit too eventually, leaving me with some spare, ready for any future problems! hehe

The mini was just slushy, but it was only -4 yesterday when I saw it, so whether it had frozen solid earlier in the week, being -15 in the area, I am not too sure.

Cheers

Dave
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ukdave2002



Joined: 23 Nov 2007
Posts: 3524
Location: South Cheshire

PostPosted: Sat Jan 09, 2010 8:55 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Morrisons (in Nantwich ) are selling "car plan" antifreeze for 1.07 a litre , I bought 4 litres today for the Morris.
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buzzy bee



Joined: 23 Nov 2007
Posts: 3397
Location: South Cheshire

PostPosted: Sat Jan 09, 2010 11:15 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Sounds cheap, is that concentrate or mixed, if mixed what is it mixed to?
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victor 101



Joined: 03 Apr 2009
Posts: 449
Location: East Yorkshire

PostPosted: Sun Jan 10, 2010 12:03 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Need to be aware of some of the cheap antifreeze, I remember some years ago pouring some from a drum into a measure and it was already crystalising.
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ukdave2002



Joined: 23 Nov 2007
Posts: 3524
Location: South Cheshire

PostPosted: Sun Jan 10, 2010 11:59 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

buzzy bee wrote:
Sounds cheap, is that concentrate or mixed, if mixed what is it mixed to?


Bugger ! its mixed!! I didn't think to look !! didn't know you could get anything but concentrated stuff... feel ripped off now!
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