Classic cars forum & vehicle restoration.

[Mistydog]

I was interested in the 'wax and polishing every 6 months' . I know an elderly man (aged well over 80) who has a 1930's Austin Big 7. This car has never been welded or painted and is like the day it left the factory. The owner washes and dries it but in over 70 years has never waxed or polished it. He maintains wax and polish take off paint!

[Rick]

[Uncle Joe]

The manufacturers of the wax that I normally use recommend that the car is polished before re-waxing, to remove the old wax. Surely this will take off paint as well in some places?

Perhaps wax manufactures have shares in auto paint companies?

[ianm]

G'day all
with regard to the time old problem of rust provention ,I'm in the process of replacing the floor in my Hillman Series 3 Estate and someone on the Hillman Group recomended POR 15 .
I have looked at the web site and of course by them its" the be all to end all".
Has anyone had any experience with this product , its been around a while and its not cheap so before I venture any further I would like to hear from someone who may heve used the product.
Best wishes
Ian

[SloResto]

Hi Ian

Yes I have used POR15 on two of my Phase 1 Vanguards. And I am not happy with the results.

The first car I took back to bare metal and admittedly we had a very slight sprinkle of rain before the repaint which in fairness most likely caused rust to come back through the acrylic lacquer undercoat paint on the roof.

PPC state that you MUST ensure that before repainting that the surface to be painted is absolutely bone dry.

So the second vehicle I piainted the floor in the cabin, boot and around the engine bay with POR15 also and was absolutely determined to make sure that the painting surface was bone dry by waving a hair dryer over the metalwork for hours after the surface had well and truly air dried out.

Some weeks after painting the floors I noticed a whole heap of rust nibs coming through - to say I was not happy was an understatement.

The floor sections I painted with the grey POR15 and these areas all had rust nibs under the paintwork. I also painted the ceiling of the roof ie roof underside as the headlining had been removed with black POR 15. I noticed on this roof section that the rust nibs were not present under the paint.

So the grey top coat may have been part of a crook batch ie water had been sealed in at manufacture - one could not be sure but I faithfully followed their POR 15 application process.

I know that some people swear by POR15 but I personally will never use it again. I agree that POR 15 does sound very good indeed - in theory.

The other thing I noticed after painting the engine bay with 2 coats of POR15 is that it neutralises your earths ie I couldn't get the car to start as the metal to metal earth contact was inhinited by the thick layers of POR15 so I had to scrape a bit off under the solenoid down to bare metal b4 I could get the car to fire.

PPC also told me that POR15 was impervious to UV rays - well my first Vanguard received 2 coats of POR all over and the only area I did not overspray with an acrylic undercoat was the bootlid.

Over time the POR15 had broken down and become quiet chalky so much so that if you rubbed past it it was very difficult to get it off your clothes.

POR15 has quite an unpleasant odour about it - quite pungent so I wouldn't use it in confined spaces. If you spray it you need to use a proper respirator.

I was painting the underfloor so of course the brush was very close to my nose and it wasn't a pleasant experience. If POR15 gets on your skin or clothes you need to get it of ASAP with thinners otherwise it is very indellible and will be hard to get off without abrading your skin.

What I did like about POR15 was that you could simply apply it with a brush and being self levelling the brush strokes just disappeared leaving a glassy 2 pack like shine. And POR 15 is unlike other paints in that it contains about 90% solids whereas most other paints struggle to contain 30-40% solid colour.

Which all means that the coverage is absolutely fantastic - I painted the Vanguard - 2 coats with a 1 litre tin if my memory serves me - it was simply brilliant and looked a million dollars... until the rot set in as described above.

Maybe PPC have upgraded the formula since I used POR15 circa 2001 so you may wanna check it out with others... but if you do decide to use it you have to be absolutely anal about removing every skeric of moisture from the painting surface b4 hand.. perhaps hire some strong lamps.

But good luck whatever you decide to try! I'd be interested to hear how you get on if you decide to use POR. I recall that PPC were bringing out a wider range of colours which could be interesting but I would take a fair bit of convincing before I would use POR15 again.

OH and I forgot to add that POR 15 paint is meant to be used with 2 other products.. Marine Clean which cleans the bare metal and Metal Ready which is essentially a rust converter leaving the typical phospahte white powders on the surface to be painted.

PPC recommend both these products be used (altho marine Clean is optional) and they both need to be cleaned off with water and left to dry before the final paint stage with POR 15.

BTW Ian I live in Brisbane, Queensland so you are more than welcome to drop by and see the results first hand!

cheers
Mark

Standard Vanguard sedan Phase 1 1948, 1949, 1950 + 1953 Panel van]
Datsun 1600 Sports roadster 1967, Volvo 240 (gulp)
1938 LWB Hudson sedan

[Old-Nail]

That's interesting Mark, I've only ever heard of using POR15 as chassis paint and it is supposedly better applied in damp conditions or am I confusing it with some other product perhaps?

[SloResto]

Hi Old Nail

You are testing the old memory banks now! I think that PPC claim that POR 15 actually dries faster in moist conditions but that you still need to make sure that the paint surface is bone dry before painting.

I removed the diff housing and tail shafts also on both cars and painstakingly prepared them and painted with POR 15 and thjey came up OK. Even tho PPC say that you can just leave them with the intermediate POR 15 coat - that for a better finish you should apply POR 15 top coat.

I did not do that as I reasoned that on the chassis the UV would be hard pressed to get to it - re the body - I intended to finish it with an acrylic primer top coat. And also it was getting pretty damned expensive at AUD $50 for a 500ml tin and that was 7 years ago!!

I believe that the hot rod fraternity were quite enamored with POR 15 given that they enjoy a nice chassis!

I know that PPC recommend POR 15 primarily for chassis and industrial machinery etc but PPC told me that there was no reason that a car body could not be painted with POR 15. I am guessing that the very limited colour chart was their reason but maybe they feared the direct UV light on car bodies may be a problem but I had numerous talks with PPC and they assured me it would be fine for car body use and it all seemed reasonable.

I suppose that in theory if POR 15 did everything they claimed - brushable, 2 pac finish, brilliant coverage, hammer tough, yada yada yada then they would put the automotive paint industry as we know it out of business. But that is just my conspiracy theory. haha

cheers
Mark

[47p2]

Interesting story about the POR 15.

I recently bought a Range Rover classic and was going to go down this route....

Guess I will be changing my plan now
_________________
ROVER
One of Britain's Fine Cars

[Old-Nail]

I have just bought two tins of this stuff for the bodywork of my 2cv:

http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/Blakes-Paints-Brilliant-Enamel-750ML-WHITE_W0QQitemZ360016885040QQihZ023QQcategoryZ15263QQtcZphotoQQcmdZViewItemQQ_trksidZp1742.m153.l1262

Blakes Yacht paint. They have assured me that it can be brushed, rollered or sprayed without any special (health) precautions, and it should be weatherproof and light-fast.

[Uncle Joe]

Most of the rust preventative paints require moisture to dry properly. The trouble is, they all seem to end up being to hard, and have a tendency to chip. POR15 also is known to dissolve if something like ATF gets onto the surface.

I know which is the prefered product to use, as does UKDave (I think) but the question is, should it be promoted on this forum?

[Old-Nail]

If it's good UJ then yes it should shouldn't it? Or am I missing something?

[47p2]

[ukdave2002]

I think this is the stuff UJ is refering to

http://www.oldclassiccar.co.uk/forum/phpbb/phpBB2/viewtopic.php?t=3286

I'm using it on the Morris 8 Chassis, couple of other people I know have used it and gave it the thumbs up, I was quite impressed by the company that supplies it (there is a link in the thread), rust prevention is kinda all they do.

Dave

[Uncle Joe]

Yes, that is the stuff. I checked up on the guy that runs the company with some engineering friends at Scania. He knows his stuff, and has a very good reputation. But follow his advice carefully to get the best results.

[47p2]

Thanks chaps, I will be starting a bit of preventative maintenance on the Range Rover chassis very soon
_________________
ROVER
One of Britain's Fine Cars