Classic cars forum & vehicle restoration.

[Dalek63]

Just £250 for a weekend of sheer delight....................

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Vintage-Caravan-For-Hire-/151048879792?pt=UK_Home_Garden_Celebrations_Occasions_ET&hash=item232b36feb0
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I can resist anything except temptation ! ( Oscar Wilde)
"Don't try to teach a pig to sing. It wastes your time and annoys the pig." ( Mark Twain)
http://www.period-classic-caravan-club.co.uk/

[andyrr1971]

When I first came across this forum it was far more active and full of interesting and informative posts regarding vintage and classic caravans. However of late I've noticed a huge reduction in posts in general, as well as an increase in 'moaning' and sarcastic comments about cath kidston and prettied up caravans, particularly those for sale on a certain auction site. I feel there are several points I'd like to make, maybe some will disagree, and some will agree but hopefully all will think about them! As we all know the caravan mentioned in this post is not highly valuable or rare and possibly a similar one would be available to buy at the hire price at the right time of year. However no one is forcing anyone to hire it, or look at the advert even. It might be that not everyone can buy or store a caravan and perhaps it might introduce new people into the idea of buying/ using an older caravan which is surely a good thing for the future in terms of new enthusiasts and saving caravans? Its also someone's attempt at legally making some extra money, something many of us who are not wealthy or retired have to do. Also owners of caravans have always personalised them - repainting, re-upholstering and altering them - the 50s/ 60s old books even give advice and suggestions, so why is it wrong now all of a sudden?! My next point is why such snobbery in the classic caravan circle? I can see that people who were around in the 1960s might look at a 60s van and say not a classic, in the same way I look at a 1980s one and as I remember them as being the latest new thing when I was a kid and find it hard to see them as a classic. However times move on and caravans that were just old caravans in the 80s when the two main old caravan clubs were set up are now 50 years old! Much as I'd love a 30s caravan I don't have suitable storage for it, I do however have 3 caravans the oldest 53years old and the youngest 48 years old and yet I have still been told they are not old enough or the wrong brand to be classics or welcome at shows! I doubt very much many visitors to steam rallies ever owned a 1930s car cruiser, but I'd bet a large number had a 1960s sprite or knew someone who did and thus have memories of them. Perhaps welcoming younger families and newcomers into the scene - giving support and advice - might mean more inkeeping personalising and modification, and also a future for the classic caravan movement and many old caravans that would otherwise be lost. Finally what is a classic?? I like classic cars and I've never heard anyone say a mini isn't a classic just because it was cheap, surely a classic is something that was typical of a certain period or a revolutionary design classic that stood out as important? In the 20s/ 30s an eccles or car cruiser was typical as an example of the period, in the 1960s a sprite was typical surely? I don't think the idea that 10 - 15 year old caravans are classics should be entertained as in the classic car world, however surely 60s/ 70s vans should now be let in? If you only like the old ones walk on by the newer ones and remember some day those 30s caravans will need new homes and if shown enthusiasm and advice some of the newcomers may one day have the money, storage and knowledge to take them on and preserve them as current owners do.

[gillberry]

I think you'll find the snobbery as you call it relates to the fact that as with anything old people think it's valuable and in the case of classic caravans Kath Kidson dressing up makes them more saleable . If people are interested in classic caravans as with anything else you don't need to dress them up in whatever fashion says . Having observed ebay over the last year or so these classic caravans dressed up in the latest fashion fetch more money than the equivalent not dressed up . So if some of us are cynical about people jumping on the band wagon of classic caravans then we are but as to snobbery regarding the age then you are missing the point .
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1968 Volvo Amazon estate (Gracie)
1967 Cheltenham Nyala caravan

[andyrr1971]

Hi, not sure what point I have missed, perhaps I didn't explain myself as well as I might. I feel its a shame such a previously active and interesting forum is not as it was, I used to love reading the regular updates on restorations and peoples new finds. I was simply wondering why it is such a bad thing if people personalise caravans and pointing out even many years ago it was common and then would have been done to the fashions of the time. I also suggested a more welcoming approach might encourage people to do it in a way which could be reversed in the future or perhaps original parts be saved for possible re-use or passed on to those who want originality. My point regarding snobbery for want of a better word was relating to personal experience in regards to events and conversations I have overheard or been involved in. By no means am I trying to imply everyone has these views and if you'd received the emails and messages I did when I sold a sprite the other year you'd understand my comment. Certain people may be said to be jumping on the band wagon, but to be honest if you have a fairly common, late 70s/ early 80s caravan why not get £1500 rather than £400 for it! If you meant jumping on the band wagon by coming to shows then my point was all groups/ clubs need new and younger members joining in order to keep developing, or at least keep going and unfortunately we can't all afford a vintage caravan or suitable storage, yet many like myself have a strong interest in the history of, and saving, old caravans.

[D4B]

[andyrr1971]

Well when old caravans used to be £50 for a pretty decent one I can see why it was good entertainment! Its a shame a few better examples weren't saved as many of the cheaper brands and models are now all but extinct - probably as most ended up on the banger tracks! Though at least it makes the few remaining survivors rare and interesting today!

[christine lowery]

hi gang
This site has been quiet this spring maybe its because the majority are huddled around there fires and not out getting wet in the great British spring and summer.
having said that we royalist have managed to get our rally program of to a good start in snow and wind with only a pinch of rain
Web sites, clubs, and life go in circles so if were in a lull and a bit despondent it will pick up and return to the hive of chat and information that it used to be
kath kidson is the latest fashion in caravan restoration, don't knock it, the purist view of original down to the last screw has its place, but so dose the kk view, and the use it and abuse it that im afraid to say im in.
we in the royale club have long held the view that as a top marque in its day, if a new idea came along it would have been fitted, so you see a lot of vans with cassette toilets barbeque points and some of the lesser improvements
that have come our way in the last 40 years
have fun out there and if you see the sun bottle some and post it on the site

chris and christine lowery

[Margo]

Andyrr1971 – I couldn’t agree more. I think the preservation of older caravans is great thing regardless what personal taste people have and if 1960’s and 1970’s caravans introduce a younger stream of enthusiasts to the fold then bring it on. Like the car scene there will always be select groups some of which refuse to accept anything other than what they are in to. Live and let live is what I think.

I was brought up in the 1970’s so that era for me is what interests me. For example, I would rather look at a Cortina rather than an Austin 7 – not because I don’t like the Austin, but because I can relate to the Cortina. I think that is a sentiment shared by many. Caravans, likewise offer the same interest; certainly for me anyway. Speaking about the caravan in the above post, that’s a Cotswold Windrush circa late 70’s. I actually have one of those albeit the bigger model but totally original and we love it. It draws attention wherever we go mainly by people of our parent’s generation. This is no doubt because they can connect to it in much the same way I can with the Cortina. I accept that our caravan is not a true classic even though we may sometimes refer to it as one, but the context of which would be in comparison to say a modern/current design. With the way in which the “older” caravan scene is moving – if the sale of caravans over the past couple of years is anything to go by, sooner or later all older caravans will be suitably categorised much like cars e.g. Vintage, Classic & Retro etc.

Do I want to see more 60’s and 70’s caravans in the show scene – hell yes

[Dalek63]

So if this trend goes on and all the 1960's and 70's caravans are all used up are "we" going to be so delighted over so called entrepreneurs getting their hands on some 1950's or 1930's caravans and poncing them up to make a few thousand more than market value.
_________________
I can resist anything except temptation ! ( Oscar Wilde)
"Don't try to teach a pig to sing. It wastes your time and annoys the pig." ( Mark Twain)
http://www.period-classic-caravan-club.co.uk/

[Margo]

I don’t think there is too much to worry about with true classic and vintage caravans. Once these fall in to the hands of an enthusiast then they are likely to stay there or pass on to other enthusiasts. By this time prices have risen so much – and rightly so, that nobody would dare KK it unless they were bonkers or if the van was a complete wreck. Most of the KK conversions I’ve seen have been based on uninteresting mass produced 1970’s run of the mill brands that would otherwise have been scrapped and lost forever. I’m not really a KK fan but if this trend continues then it can only be good for the next generation of enthusiast or more importantly the preservation of older caravans. After all, the one in the above post looks fantastic and anyone who’s done this kind of conversion and has done a quality job knows full well it cannot be done commercially as the time and effort required together with the fancy fabrics and so on is very cost prohibitive. These are done purely for self-satisfaction or as a hobby and if you can make a few quid to offset some of the costs then so be it.

[Uncle Alec]

I'm more worried by the apparent tarting up of these mundane brands to make them look arty-farty as opposed to a replacement of the inevitable structural timberwork. So some poor sop, attracted by the thousands of pounds lavished on the makeover, doesn't take account of the fact that it has been done on an unsound frame.
Or to put it another way - do these fashionista restorers make sound the bodywork before tarting up? At the prices asked, I do hope so.

[ajlelectronics]

It's known as "fur coat and no knickers" and 'twas ever thus. From boy racers tarting their Vauxhall Novas, to frilly caravan conversions, they are degrees of the same thing.
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Evans Waterless Coolants
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[old van man]

[darren7303]

Andy

It's interesting to read that your caravans aren't welcome at certain rallies. They are subconsiously breaking their own rules as no doubt there will be miniature steamers there that are younger than your vans! We have attended various gatherings in the north everything from a Fire Engine show to various steam rallies without any problem. Our caravan is from 1966.

I think the KK and beach hut refits are a fad. The argument could be made that by titivating these vans (assuming they arent rotten) that they have been delayed from potentially being scrapped and a future owner may think about reverting to somewhere near original.

[andyrr1971]

Well I'm not sure what happened as one of the messages appears to have gone before I got a chance to reply to it. It did kind of show exactly what I was talking about so its a shame it has gone. There clearly are those who think anything post 1960 should be scrapped and isn't a 'real caravan' if I remember the phrase correctly. Its very sad that people feel that way - when I go to a show if theres something I don't like or am not interested in I carry on to something I want to see. You are probably correct as to some people use showing a caravan as a free weekend away and I would support a view that anything on display should be in good condition with some info relating to it for interested parties to read. Also that a row of almost identical 70s safaris or cheltenhams as I have often seen at shows are not that interesting in comparison to a more varied representation of vans from the period and so the number of very similar vans should perhaps be limited. But not at a steam rally - why? Tractors aren't steam but they are there right up to 80s ones? What about the random awning displays - what have pedal cars and radios got to do with steam or farming - though many people like to see them I imagine as people keep taking them. Finally I think its great the Royale club seem to have an open mind and are welcoming all people to their club and its interesting to see other members of this forum share my experiences and views. In some cases there are more examples preserved and in use of 1930s and certainly 50s vans than many models of the 1960s, I just don't get why people can't see they are just as important in the history of caravans and general recent social heritage. The 60s was the period car ownership and the possibility of having a caravan came to ordinary people!