Classic cars forum & vehicle restoration.

[AliceFairholme]

Hello All, this is my first st post to the forum but have been lurking for some time. We are trying to restore this caravan but are running into a multitude of problems and feeling a little overwhelmed by it all!

Plan was to rebuild rotten corner caused by badly executed addition of an awning rail, rebuild possibly restore very tatty interior and reseal ally panels/replace wood as required..problem is have not been able to start the work on the frame yet due to very saggy springs and no shocks fitted (I have another Fairholme of the same year but a 12 footer and that has had dampers added using bolt together supports etc, I think this was not factory standard as no evidence of any dampers having ever been fitted to the project van) Have taken the axle off and had the springs re-tempered this has helped a bit but van still a bit sloppy because no dampers?? or does it just need stiffer springs?

Other problems are just cant find 15inch 4J spare wheel for the I thought very common B and B chassis and the tyre size of 165R15 is unusual so thus far have only found up to 87 load index number (based on weight of the smaller 12 footer this should be OK but not much leeway for "Stuff" it would be nice to find a proper commercial type tyre.

How hard is it to find and fit missing leg winder screw rod in otherwise complete corner steady?

I am sure somebody will have had experience of fixing suspension problems so any advice will be most welcome, although somewhat out of my depth I wanted to do this 'van as it is the bigger sister to our other regularly used 'van. Just want to say we are not of the tart up and run brigade and will eventually make a nice traditional looking interior, this van was very marginal as has been well used and abused, but we think worth saving! would love to post some pics but just cant face learning photo bucket or similar from scratch right now, sorry.

[Dalek63]

Hi
Glad to see another old van being preserved

Your queries,
1/ Stiff springs usually keep a van steady, unless going over big bumps. Our Car Cruiser is about 30 cwt and is rock solid on just springs. But if your van is wallowing on its springs even when they have been tempered, I would fit shocks on the axel. This will put a stop to it. Sometimes manufacturers cut corners on axels and springs for cost reasons, so even when new, some vans towed like a ship in a storm with weak springs and no shocks.

2/ Don't know where you will get a spare wheel, maybe ebay, 165r-15 is a radial tyre and these vans used cross-ply, using radial tyres will add to the above problem of wallowing a LOT. You should be able to get cross-ply tyres from any vintage tyre supplier. There are several on ebay at the moment too. 600 x 15 or 650 x 15 is the size you need.

3/ As to the corner steady screw rod, I'd find a friendly man with a lathe and make one. otherwise id say impossible to find.
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[andyrr1971]

Interesting to read your post and hear of your caravan. My first caravan was the 10ft6 version of the same range which I believe was called the Babette. bought for £50 as a 'den' in the garden when I was 12 back in the early 1990s. Your 12ft one is indeed the Bambino.

If the springs are not inverted or hitting the bump stops I wouldn't worry too much. The wheel seems to be sitting in the right sort of place in the photo of your van on the road - they did look quite low as a result of styling and the cranked axle which was done to reduce overall height and increase stability. Makers generally fitted quite soft springs to vans in order that they were not shaken to pieces. I had a car cruiser with leaf springs which were mega over rated - towed well but gas mantles always destroyed afterwards, where as in coil sprung vans they generally last ages. My little eccles on leaf springs was again very overrated and it towed terribly bouncing around all over. I wonder if the softer springing was to try and address these problems - by the early 60s few touring vans still used leafs and there would have been strong competition from other makes who were pushing the advantages of modern suspension in terms of towing stability and handling.

As regards shocks I don't remember any on mine, but worth fitting and trying if relatively easy to do so. Shocks were rarely fitted on earlier vans, but by the 60s they were more common and many makers such as sprite had the mountings as standard with the option of specifying them, and many more expensive makes were fitting as standard.
You don't mention how it tows? The best van I've towed was an early sprite countryman - big van, but soft coil suspension and no shocks - though was faultless even in heavy wind and on all types of road from motorway to winding country roads. If its just soft and bouncy when you walk round in it with no legs down, but tows ok I wouldn't worry.
Good luck with a spare wheel, its a case of tracking down a scrap van fitted with the same type of wheel - or finding a similar offset, stud spacing on a car/ van, I have two vans which I'm searching for a wheel for at the moment. I'm pretty sure your van doesn't have a B&B chassis, though has the almost universal B&B hitch. I'm pretty sure the wheels/ hubs are not B&B but happy to stand corrected. My Sprite has the same wheels/ hubs from the look of it, but the sprung, not hydraulic hitch. If you find any wheels or what else uses them please let me know! Later vans are easier to source wheels for as by the mid 60s most used either the common 13inch wheel or the B&B chassis with the common 15inch 5 stud wheel.

As regards tyres, I have a similar problem - the obvious fit and easy to get being 185x15 8ply tyres, but on my van I have very little room (width) and I might end up seeking cross plys as I want to maintain the height - modern 165 tyres have quite a low overall diameter compared with similar width cross plys and thus tend to look odd and too small. As Dalek says radials can also add to the wallowing, though on my car cruiser I pumped up to about 48psi and that got rid of it - depends on the type of tyre (I have 8ply van tyres with max pressure stated at 65psi) and be careful not the split the rim by over inflating as the rims were made for cross plys at 30ish psi.

For the leg I would try and track down a scrap van, even look for a caravan chassis of the correct period on ebay, which you can remove the rod and any other bits needed to repair yours. Unless you or a friend can do it and has the equipment it will cost a small fortune to have a one off made by an engineering company. If you find one fitting is easy - usually just have a nut or split pin stopping them screwing out in use.

Good luck with the restoration.

[christine lowery]

hi
looking at the pictures your van has an old b&b chassis they never changed the style of the legs but the screw go longer in the seventies
unfortunately i don't have any complete legs instock but as said buy a chassis and you would have spare wheels and a complete set of legs
prices vary you will just have to keep looking
chris lowery
royale caravans

[christine lowery]

chassis for sale in basingstoke
at £20

Item number:
111104018017
christine

[AliceFairholme]

Firstly I would like to say thank you all for your replies. I will try to go through the points mentioned then put up some pics of the beginnings of the repairs.

@ Andyrr1971 yes I agree with you about modern 165/80 r15 tyres looking a bit “shallow” the other van is on 13inch wheels and van tyres same PCD and centre hole but the overall diameter is less than about 1.5 inch different, I would think if we use the van before acquiring a spare we could just use the wheels and spare from the other van without it being much lower than now but we plan on having the correct spare wheel before it is used.

Would think most likely is a B and B chassis as has B and B beta 3 head like you said and also B and B hub caps which fit notches on wheels and the bearing cover thingy’s have a B and B logo stamped into them but thanks for at least getting me to think through the possibilities of what might have been fitted at the factory or changes made to the van over the years.

@Christine thanks for spotting that chassis on the bay of e but I am pretty certain it won’t have 15 inch wheels (probably 13) or correct centre hole and PCD also people have said the leg winders changed over the years I noticed that chassis had a more 70s type coupling was it B and B sigma 4 ?? If I could find a chassis with correct wheels coupling head and leg winders I would buy it and cannibalise it don’t know what the chance of finding such a chassis would be as it would most likely have another project caravan on top of it I would not be willing to break!! Or perhaps a large trailer made years ago (I very nearly broke this one for spares for the Bambino but decided to put the time and effort in and have a go at saving it).Besides don’t have room to store and strip another chassis right now, the neighbours aren’t to keen on the two vans on the drive as it is!

Main reason we had the springs done was because the van was leaning to one side, we did not worry when we bought it as it was on a “balloon” type cross ply on one side and a lower profile radial on the other so not surprising it was leaning!! Like I said earlier this van has definitely had a rather chequered history. When we got new tyres for it still leant a bit but towed OK now the springs have been re set its no longer at a drunken list but stands up straight and true just a bit of a soft ride, might eventually fit stiffer springs or try to source bits to add shocks like a previous owner has been done to the bambino.

Now a few pics of the rot, really am having a hard time removing the screws, done the wd40, re cut screw head, tap end of screwdriver with hammer, screw half a turn in before unscrewing yada yada… Some responded to this but some are stubborn. In the toilet corner the rot is so bad just removed the wood from the inside and attacked the screws from the back. But what do I do about the ones that won’t budge when I am resealing the van? Drilling is a bit scary as all too easy to slip and damage the ally.

Have taken lots of pictures during disassembly so hope this will help in getting it all back together!

That’s all for now, no doubt more to follow but once again thank you all for your help advice and interest in our project.

[AliceFairholme]

sorry to put the pics in a separate message couldn't get the preview to work so just posted the text to get it up..Anyway some of today's pics.

[img][/img][/i]

re-tempered springs back on van

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removing rotten wood from inside, some screws just would not budge

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external sealing trims coming off slowly

[christine lowery]

if wheels become a problem
new 14 inchers are available from trailertek 5stud on 6 inch pcd for around £100 with tyres
christine
but the old trims won't fit

[AliceFairholme]

Just to clear up any confusion here is a pic of one of the wheels fitted to the Halcyon, tyre size in this pic is 165/80r15 (the wheel is only 4 or 4.5J wide I forget which but don't think would be wide enough to accommodate more than 165 perhaps 175 max tyre width, I am pretty sure 185/xxr15 tyre would be to wide but I could be wrong about that).

As you can see this is 4 stud with large by modern standards centre hole, PCD is approx, not measured accurately but approx, 4 and 1/2 inch, definitely B and B wheel on B and B axle don't know when they changed to 5 studs but I saw a sterling caravan at a rally probably 1965 or 66 year with same coupling head as mine but on 5 stud wheels so can quite understand any confusion. Once again thanks in advance if anyone can help me track down this wheel

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[img][/img]

[sheffieldcortinacentre]

pcd is measusered centre to centre diagonaly if its 4 1/2 inch then following are same

austin allegro/1100/1800/princess/cambridge /maestro(van only)/tr6/stag/scimitar se4/5/6/honda(pre90)/volvo s/v40.

in pic it looks to be 4 1/4 ifso then following

ford (except 100E)/pug/citreon/saab 900-/hillman/audi80/90/100