Classic cars forum & vehicle restoration.

[bezford]

Are these all the same thing??
Hi...my reason for posting again so soon was just to clear things up with my question above...filler. bodge. Bondo..are they all the same thing??
Also more importantly is it true that the rings or contour lines or islands or map lines or whatever you call them appear in painted and previously filled paintwork because the bodge or filler has been exposed to water/moisture and never been dried off properly before the paint has been applied onto the filler and the panel its on...so the moisture needs to escape so it causes these rings that look so bad and are tell tale marks that the panels been filled and painted??

I have a peugeot206 rear quarter to fill and paint and derust but i want it dine right so it will last so any advice or syggestions woyld be excellent...oh and the pyg is being painted outdoors with rattle cans
...Not great but im sure i can get a good finish as ive done it before but advice is still welcomed....thanks guys....bezford.

[MikeEdwards]

It also happens if you put filler on top of many types of paint rather than directly onto bare metal. The previous coating shrinks differently to the filler, causing the problem.

[Phil - Nottingham]

They are one and the same thing but it is what other people think they are is definitely not but more importantly its how/where they are used.

This is very rarely a black or white fact just opinions and on this topic that is the only opinion you will get from me - others will have theirs.


_________________
Rover P2
Rover P4
Rover P5 & P5B
Land Rover S2 & S3
Morris Mini Traveller Mk2

[bezford]

Thanks for the responses guys..very interesting this to me...
I was wandering if anybody has ever seen the tv show on quest channel no 38
Where they show American Hotrod with Boyd Coddington??now these programs are all reruns i rhink as aBiyd is dead unfortunately...but what is interesting is when they prepare a body for paint they entirely cover the while body un filler/bodge/bondo then they flat sand rhe entire car then paint the car in rhe oven and they get the best finishes possible wirh these e cars they do selling for around half a million dollars(its true...)they have to be right and have concorse winning finish...
So my question is having eliminated any possible edge problems by having a full skin of bodge...has anyone used this method and is there anything i should know before attempting this method at all or is there a method to work as normal without risking the islands as i dont see a way of filling over metal with paint around it without going over at the edges.....so any tips for this blocking out is it?please send them my way as its a real first for me.......just to add will the end result be too different from the rest of the car as im only painting the drivers rear quarter......thanks again fellas......bezford

[colwyn500]

I think the answer has already been given. You need to strip back the paint and old filler on the damaged or dented area going beyond it into good flat bodywork. After cleaning the exposed steel put on as much filler as you want but you would be advised just to skim it with the minimum amount. Then you can do the Boyd treatment by rubbing away at first with a fairly coarse grit paper and then going finer as you build up more layers where you find flaws.

You will regret it if you plaster bondo/filler over onto painted areas although to complicate things, I have read here that you can fill over epoxy primer.

[ukdave2002]

There a area couple of reasons for coating an entire body/ panel in filler:

1)It saves time
2) Its very difficult to see all the minor defects when there is no gloss, its often easier to feel them, covering the whole panel take the guess work out.

It looks like a bodge, but its not, as long as you, deal with any corrosion, deal with all the high points prior to coating, and get the worst of the lows out, most of the filler will be sanded away.

The trick is to use the largest block suitable for the job, if you are sanding a curved panel sand across with a diagonal motion, otherwise you will "flatten" the curve, stop as soon as metal shows through, otherwise you will create lows even with a block. When its flat coat with a really thin skim of something like Upol Top Stop Gold and flatten until the main coat of filler shows through.

Don't ever be tempted to flatten with out a block, it will not be flat !

To get the lows out on modern (post 1990) you can use small pads glued to the panel, and either attach a lever or slide hammer to pull the dent out.

Paint immediately and the repair will last as long as the rest of the car.

Dave

[Desert Fox]

The "rings" you refer to are usually caused by incorrectly prepared surfaces. It is true that filler that has been subjected to water can cause imperfections. However, I have regularly wet flatted fillers with no problems.

If the filled area is not flat for example it is not feathered into the surface then the edges will be proud of the surface not visible to the in-experienced sander. When paint is applied it may pool on the edges slightly causing flotation of the paint, in other words the pigments sink causing dark lines around the filled area. This is usually made worse by using over thinned primers or top coats and aerosol sprays that contain predominantly paint thinners. UKDave is correct. Use a sanding block to smooth filler, never just fingers.

One way I check is to apply a primer surface, let it dry and flat gently. Any raised areas will show up as high points, simply sand and re-apply primer surface then wet flat.

[Kelsham]

filler is porous and you must make sure there is no access to it from behind, from pinholes etc.

I have been known to skim suspect holes in welds etc with Isopon fibreglass before filling, to stop the filler getting wet and falling out.

Now that can be regarded as bodging but it works.

Don't be fooled by those who swear by lead filling it has it's own problems with flux corrosion etc.

I repaired a boot lid twelve years ago, welded in lower lip, filled and painted it still looks good.

I have recently started to use Abranet sanding system. Available on the internet, it is very good. Look it up.

Regards Kels.
Regards Kels

[Phil - Nottingham]

You are right about body solder - on our P2 when I replaced the sills the inch thick factory applied solder at the A/B-C/D posts joints it had no steel left behind it and where it was thinner the rusting steel had pushed the solder away.

It was not bodging then of course
_________________
Rover P2
Rover P4
Rover P5 & P5B
Land Rover S2 & S3
Morris Mini Traveller Mk2

[whiteshadow]

I'm no expert, but I have been doing my own research prior to my project!.....I think the confusion in the original post comes from the fact there is more than one type of filler (bondo is a trade name I believe for a filler like hoover for vacuums)

a) you pull out the major dents
b) you fill with two part filler and sand back....but this can leave pin holes etc.
c) you cover the whole panel will a low viscosity 2K stopper (some of these are pourable & self levelling) and then sand the whole thing!

Check out the upol data sheets, for easy sand and dolphin......other brands are available etc....