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Non-motorway driving in Europe
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colwyn500



Joined: 21 Oct 2012
Posts: 1745
Location: Nairn, Scotland

PostPosted: Fri Nov 14, 2014 10:12 pm    Post subject: Non-motorway driving in Europe Reply with quote

Now my car is restored and I can see an end in sight for my house build, I really fancy the challenge of going for a very long drive.
Ideally I will be heading for Greece and with only 500cc behind me I will be taking my time.
I'm struggling to find detailed guidance on how to choose reasonable classic car friendly routes and working out a sensible daily distance.
Has anyone done any long distance driving in their Classic in Europe or can point me at a website or book.
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D4B



Joined: 28 Dec 2010
Posts: 2083
Location: Hampshire UK

PostPosted: Fri Nov 14, 2014 10:33 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I think in France they would refer to the Michelin maps?

Not sure about the other countries, not been (yet)

Hope you will compile a full report of your adventure for us Wink
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goneps



Joined: 18 Jun 2013
Posts: 601
Location: Auckland, New Zealand

PostPosted: Sat Nov 15, 2014 12:22 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Fifteen years ago a Morris rally at the opposite end of the country provided an excuse to undertake a month-long 3,500 mile tour of South Island in the Eight. Because I pre-booked motels for the entire trip and had ferry bookings to consider a good deal of planning was required, but since I enjoy compiling spreadsheets just as much as poring over maps I knocked up a sheet for the purpose. Obviously this allows one to play with times and distances, and once printed out becomes the itinerary.

Needless to say you must have a reasonable idea of achievable average speeds over decent distances, in my case 30 and 35mph with and without stops respectively, using back roads wherever possible. Most of the going outside major towns was roughly equivalent to minor and B-class roads in Britain.

Apart from the week of the rally I covered between 150 and 250 miles per day, which proved very comfortable.

Richard


Last edited by goneps on Sun Nov 16, 2014 12:14 am; edited 1 time in total
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ka



Joined: 03 Dec 2007
Posts: 600
Location: Orkney.

PostPosted: Sat Nov 15, 2014 7:46 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I think you will need to decide how much driving you wish to do. When touring Europe on the Bike, we planned a riding day, and then a stop over for one or two days to take in the locals area, in effect 'hopping' distances between stop overs. If you are planning to drive the distance, to a stop over point, I agree with an earlier point, 200-250 miles a day is more than adequate, even on the superior French roads.
I say superior, as the toll roads are ideal for big mileages, bur their toll-free 'A' roads make charismatic driving with the opportunity for regular stops and sight-seeing. German roads are busier, but I would keep clear of their Autoban in a speed restricted vehicle, we travelled from North Germany to Bavaria, utilising the Aotobans, and even cruising at three figures, we were overtaken along the route. Austria and Switzerland require the purchase of a permit to allow driving on their motorways, which give easy access over the mountains, again the 'A' roads are quieter, and make for some superb scenic driving with the mountain passes hard on engine/gearbox/brakes. I fell out with Italy with the constant stops for tolls, annoying in a car, downright nuisance on a bike with gloved hands.
Overall, try 'Google' and it will have a route someone will have used before with the pitfalls detailed for you, and if it has not come over, I am green with envy at the thought of it!
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Old Wrench



Joined: 23 Dec 2013
Posts: 226
Location: Essex and France

PostPosted: Sat Nov 15, 2014 7:25 pm    Post subject: ! Reply with quote

colwyn500 wrote:
Now my car is restored and I can see an end in sight for my house build, I really fancy the challenge of going for a very long drive.
Ideally I will be heading for Greece and with only 500cc behind me I will be taking my time.
I'm struggling to find detailed guidance on how to choose reasonable classic car friendly routes and working out a sensible daily distance.
Has anyone done any long distance driving in their Classic in Europe or can point me at a website or book.


Well, frankly, I admire your courage!

To Greece is quite a tortuous journey, since (non-Motorway) you would have to travel through France to Italy: North via e.g. via Lyons or Grenoble (Jura or Haute-Savoie = high mountains: French Alps). Remembering, to travel through the Alps you need snow tyres, or would not be let into the passes, in Winter, Early Spring and late Autumn.

Then Slovenia, Croatia, Bosnia and Herzogovina, Montenegro, Macedonia, Greece.

In France one has the constant choice of using the old RN (Routes Nationale) or péage (toll roads). There are plenty of old and quite small cars puttering along French roads, btw!

Taking the "Scenic Routes" does however, mean travelling along D Roads and through towns and villages, where there are constant speed limits of 50 KPH and it can be a rather slow process.

Here is the Michelin Route Planner: experimentally, I ran a route search from Calais (France) to Thessalonika, Greece for you.

However it compelled motorway use and plotted a route into Belgium, into Germany and then Austria and then Hungary, thereafter Serbia and Macedonia and on thereafter into Greece. 2,500 KM and 28 hours.............non-stop!!

However, that's using main Motorways.
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vitesse



Joined: 03 Jun 2013
Posts: 561

PostPosted: Mon Nov 17, 2014 6:36 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

If I was looking to drive to Greece Peter, it would be a crime not to go via Italy in a 500.

I would drive down through France, Switzerland into Italy. To Milan take a detour to Turin to the Fiat museum. Then all the way down the coast road of Italy to Bari or Brindisi and take the ferry across to Greece. No problem finding spares if you need any.

Tony
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colwyn500



Joined: 21 Oct 2012
Posts: 1745
Location: Nairn, Scotland

PostPosted: Mon Nov 17, 2014 7:19 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

vitesse wrote:
If I was looking to drive to Greece Peter, it would be a crime not to go via Italy in a 500.

I would drive down through France, Switzerland into Italy. To Milan take a detour to Turin to the Fiat museum. Then all the way down the coast road of Italy to Bari or Brindisi and take the ferry across to Greece. No problem finding spares if you need any.

Tony

As you know Tony, my concept of "Greece" is actually Corfu and that would mean using thd Brindisi ferry as a cheat method to cut down the miles. I'm told that ferry is very expensive though. But the main part of the Greek mainland, where you tend not to go on holiday has some very appealing places which we would like to see.
Don't worry though, Murphio will be heading home and doing his own little "Who do you think you are?" ASAP.
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Fatbloke



Joined: 26 Jun 2014
Posts: 86
Location: Royal Wootton Bassett

PostPosted: Tue Nov 18, 2014 2:30 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Good luck and please keep a blog of your trip so the rest of us can enjoy it with you (or get even greener with envy!)
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lowdrag



Joined: 10 Apr 2009
Posts: 1600
Location: Le Mans

PostPosted: Tue Nov 25, 2014 8:40 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

As a resident, the only way to plan your trip is as we do when planning rallies; go and buy the A3-size (and only this size) Michelin map in Waterstones or suchlike and sit down and work the route out, then I'd use the Logis de France site for hotels along the way. Rooms aren't very dear at all, but they are all family owned and some great restaurants. The maps are superb and allow you to plan in great detail. Given the 500cc, I would at best consider the "Départmentales" but stick to smaller route where possible. You'll find so much of France you'd otherwise miss.
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colwyn500



Joined: 21 Oct 2012
Posts: 1745
Location: Nairn, Scotland

PostPosted: Tue Nov 25, 2014 8:45 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Thanks. You are all giving me some excellent advice and encouragement. That's just what I wanted to hear Mr. "Lowdrag."
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traction39



Joined: 19 May 2009
Posts: 399
Location: South Wales

PostPosted: Tue Nov 25, 2014 9:09 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

In the mid-80's I drove from Parma to Ravenna in a 500 converted for petrol/gas. Used the autostrada as time was short. That part of the country is busy but as you travel further south the autostardas get quieter. Plenty of opportunity to visit towns and villages and plenty of 500's still around now. Driven in a modern a few times down to Bari/Brindisi/Sicily. Off the autostrada the roads are slower in these parts but great for food etc. Don't worry if the restaurant doesn't look good - the food generally will be! It would be my favourite route - cross at Brindisi to Greece!! Wish I was planning it!
I agree with another post: in France stay in the Logis hotels or the tables d'hôte B&B. Italy also has a lot of agriturismo "farms B&B"
Can I come too?
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