Classic cars forum & vehicle restoration.

Minxy · Joined: 22 Sep 2010 Posts: 273 Location: West Northants

Good day all

Interested to know if you chaps put a value on, or think a car attracts a dollar value for, provenance and history?

As an example I am currently looking at a car that is 65 years old and the current owner has had it for 45 and is the second owner, the first owner was a titled lady who had it chauffeur driven. It still retains it original plate (a pre-requisite for me)There is a comprehensive history file.If I were to buy it it looks as though I may have to pay over the odds for, what is, a restoration project(not basket case)

So the question, can one/should one, factor in a provenance value? I know it works with antiques but does it with cars and by how much

peter scott · Joined: 18 Dec 2007 Posts: 7214 Location: Edinburgh

I regard it as very highly desirable but I'm not sure I would pay a large percentage over the odds. The provenance would cut no ice if the car had been heavily restored e.g. original leather replaced.

Peter
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https://www.nostalgiatech.co.uk
1939 SS Jaguar 2 1/2 litre saloon

JohnDale · Posted: Sat Jan 24, 2015 12:41 pm Post subject:

Hi Minxy, my Zephyr was sold to me as unrestored but repainted. I purchased it from a dealer(who was repeating what he had been told) but when the previous owner died I received the paperwork he'd had & lo & behold it had been professionally restored twenty years earlier & all detailed.
Does it make any difference to me? I don't think so as I suppose it was needed & saved me a job. The car was purchased on condition,which was & is, still fine. It was obviously a good restoration & I don't think it would have stopped me from buying it but I suppose it would have been nice to know.
The provenance that was supplied at point of sale never mentioned restoration,although there was plenty paperwork,MOT certs etc & confirmation of mileage. What you don't know doesn't hurt you(sometimes).
All the best,JD.
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1958 Ford Zephyr Mk2 Convertible
1976 Ford Granada Ghia.

colwyn500 · Joined: 21 Oct 2012 Posts: 1745 Location: Nairn, Scotland

Provenance would give value in relative terms for me,, so that in choosing between two cars of similar condition and price it would become the deciding factor. But I wouldn't pay more for it.
It's like paying for "goodwill" when buying a business...it's not always justifiable.

norustplease · Joined: 11 Apr 2011 Posts: 825 Location: Lancashire

It is always hard to determine whether something is in original condition or not and most presentable cars on the road at the moment are likely, one would suspect, to have had some restoration work. Plus, as the old saying goes, if it looks too good to be true, then it probably is.
Not that it would stop me buying a car that I liked and that appeared to be in decent condition, or at least in a condition that reflected the price that I was being asked to pay.
All of my cars have had some previous work, and although some more detailed history would be interesting, not having it is not a show stopper as far as I am concerned.
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1953 Citroen Traction
1964 Volvo PV544
1957 Austin A55 Mk 1
Boring Tucson SUV

Keith D · Posted: Sat Jan 24, 2015 1:25 pm Post subject:

Knowing the history of one's car is something I have never put a dollar value on, but it is something very, very desirable.

I have the complete history of my 1926 Chrysler since new and also my 1950 A40 tourer since new, and these give the cars extra value and interest to me. This value is more in my head than in actual money however!

I really wish I could find out the history of my 1932 Austin Seven, but alas, this has not proved possible, even with the help of the registrar of the Austin Seven RN Register in Britain, checking out for me.

Keith

Minxy · Joined: 22 Sep 2010 Posts: 273 Location: West Northants

Interesting replies. I guess there is more in the way of sentimental value for the current owner that the potential new owner 'can't buy' as it were.
With this particular car I'm led to believe it has never been restored other than carpets and a poor replacement of the front seat basses....but one never knows.

On a different note I havnt viewed the car because it is a long, long way from me being just outside of Nairn in Scotland. I was wondering if any of our members were placed in the area such that someone might be prepared to have a look at the vehicle and feed back to me? I would of course cover any out of pocket expenses.

Peter_L · Posted: Sat Jan 24, 2015 2:16 pm Post subject:

In the end it is whatever one wishes to pay. Some folks want to pay bottom dollar and perhaps are not interested in documents and perhaps photos, others may be comfortable paying more because they feel the history is an important part.

I happen to like the history of things and have spent many $$'s and ££'s researching photos and documents relating to houses I have lived in. Not everyone wishes to do that.

mikeC · Posted: Sat Jan 24, 2015 2:27 pm Post subject:

As others have said above, provenance and history may not add monetary value, but it certainly makes a car more saleable. I have just bought an 85 year old local car which has never been owned outside Nottinghamshire - I think I paid the going rate for the car, but it certainly encouraged me to buy this car rather than one of the others I had on my shopping list.

Very low ownership coupled with the cache of a titled owner may just inflate the value somewhat, especially if the car is largely original and unrestored; there is certainly a growing interest in the desirability of an unrestored car with suggestions that the car movement will follow the antiques trade, where an original item will command a healthy premium over a restored item. Couple that with verified provenance and it may just be a good investment for the future...

lowdrag · Joined: 10 Apr 2009 Posts: 1600 Location: Le Mans

Beware, I say! Elton John's collection of cars was sold some years back for a fortune based on his ownership, yet on resale never met the hammer prices paid. Only last September the Lynx XKSS owned in the day by Nicholas Cage sold for £385,000 at the Revival, but he sold it to pay his taxes, it was sold to an American I know, who took the engine out and put another in, at the same time ruining the suspension geometry, then the car bcame back to the UK and was once again rebuilt from A-Z. Since Lynx are making them again now, albeit a bit iffy in Czechoslovakia for about £275,000 I doubt we'll see that price for one again, and especially since it was Chris Evans who bought it because he couldn't find a real one for sale. Money no object I suppose.

People seem to think a name is important, and sometimes it is, like the Queen's Landy that sold for big bucks, but if the Marchioness of Little Piddle owned it, I don't see that it would affect the value. Just my take on things.

baconsdozen · Joined: 03 Dec 2007 Posts: 1119 Location: Under the car.

On a similar topic,some years ago I bought a Hillman imp from the original owners family (he'd died a short while before). It still had the plastic covers on the seats and on the doors. It had done under 9,000 miles. I very soon sold it on exactly as I had got it (for a small profit) I wanted a car to use everyday and pulling off the covers and using it as daily transport almost didn't seem right,plus my wife reckoned it was haunted!
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Thirty years selling imperial hand tools for old machinery(Now happily retired).

colwyn500 · Joined: 21 Oct 2012 Posts: 1745 Location: Nairn, Scotland

mikeC · Posted: Sat Jan 24, 2015 4:38 pm Post subject:

Minxy · Joined: 22 Sep 2010 Posts: 273 Location: West Northants

Peter I have PM'd you

BigJohn · Joined: 01 Jan 2011 Posts: 954 Location: Wem, Shropshire

I'm not particularly interested in who owned the car, unless it was someone of timeless note (and I doubt I'll ever be able to afford Churchills or Campbells vehicles) but I do like history, a Standard 12 I had some years ago came complete with petrol rationing coupons and history back to almost 1st registration, it also had all the old, from inception, MOT's, and bills. Now that increases the value of a car slightly, as it cannot be reclaimed once lost.