Classic cars forum & vehicle restoration.

[Rick]

Aft'noon all,

Does anyone here own a car with a pre-selector 'box, or have experiences of them? I've never driven a car thus equipped, so it'd be interesting to hear what they're like to live with?!

RJ
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[mikeC]

My mother would only drive old cars with pre-selector gearboxes!
When my father died she had the choice of keeping a 1933 Talbot 65 (1.6 litres) with pre-selector, or a 1931 Talbot 75 (2.3 litres)with crash box: I tried hard to persuade her that the 75 was the better car, but my arguments faltered when we went out for a run in the two cars. I thought I would have no problems keeping up with the 65, but two junctions later she was gone! It took all of twenty miles and a good clear stretch of open road before the 65 reappeared in my sights
I still think that I would choose the 75, and there was great satisfaction in achieving clean gear changes in it, but that run certainly opened my eyes to the benefits of the pre-selector box.

[rjt10/4]

all my Armstrongs have had Wilson pre select gearboxes and once I got the hang of changing gears found them to be very easy to use with smooth gear changes my latest acquisition the 38 lanchester has pre select plus a Daimler fluid flywheel which apparently makes changing gears even better

[Rick]

I guess they must have had some benefits, as ERA (and others) used pre-selector 'boxes in their racing cars. The Alfa, once resident in the back of the truck, was converted post-war to use a pre-selector.

One car I did own a while back was a 15hp Daimler, but I never got that running so never tried my hand at its transmission

RJ
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[goneps]

Didn't London busses before the Routemaster have pre-select gearboxes? As a child I was always intrigued that when the driver moved the little lever under the steering wheel nothing appeared to happen.

Richard

[Penman]

Hi
I haven't driven one, though I rode in a couple of Rileys, that my uncle had, with them.

I found this page in an Odhams Motor Manual 4th ed (date indicated by a Mk1 Zodiac being the most modern car pictured in the book)


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Bristols should always come in pairs.

Any 2 from:-
Straight 6
V8 V10

[Farmer John]

Hi Rick
We last discussed this in 2009, April 7th. Is it the driving you would like to know more about? Maintenance differs only in that the oil level in the flywheel needs checking. There will be an aperture in the trans cover, the flywheel needs to be rotated until the level plug is at the right o'clock. Simple and foolproof.
I will write about the driving tonight when I will have more time.

John

[Ronniej]

I have experience of driving a pre-war 15HP Daimler with a fluid flywheel and a Wilson pre-select box.
I find it a delight to drive.
The pedal layout is exactly the same as a conventional car but what you would normally expect to be the clutch is the gear change pedal.
The gear select lever is a quadrant on the steering column.
The gear is selected on the quadrant and engaged by pressing and releasing the "clutch".
The car will move off when the engine speed is increased much like a modern automatic.
Changing down also gives engine braking.
It is very easy to use and much simpler than the non-synchro boxes of the time.
Indeed, I have a recollection of seeing a period advert somewhere describing Daimlers as "
"Cars for the daughters of gentlemen to drive."
Absolutely non-PC today but an insight of the attitudes of the time!




For the benefit of persons who have not had expe

[peter scott]

[Farmer John]

Ronnie has covered the points which separate the pre-selector from the everyday manual trans.
The quadrant is simple, no need to "find" a gear's position, just select the "number" of the gear.
When the car is in top, select 3, that will be the next gear used. Just actuate the pedal when needed. At the lights, gearbox in neutral, 1 selected. Lights change, actuate the pedal. Apply the power. Gone.
The fluid flywheel is very efficient, it does not contain a stator, it is not a torque converter. An automatic gearbox is a whole other kettle of fish.
The Wilson box has ratios of very much the same value as those in a manual box so really the fluid flywheel simply replaces a manual clutch to get the vehicle moving. This it is well capable of doing.
A torque converter provides a variable ratio coupling to a gearbox which in early years only had two ratios.
Because a Wilson box has all the ratios you need a torque converter is unnecessary.
Oh bother, I did not mean to get all pedantic so will stop there.

John

[Penman]

Hi
As an aside to this topic, I queried with the DVSA what licence you would get if you took a test in one after the date when they started differentiating between manuals and autos.
Unlikely of course as they wouldn't normally have seats with built in head restraints which are now a requirement for test vehicles.
Their answer was that it would count as an auto even though it has three pedals.
So called manuals (paddle changers) with only two pedals are also autos even when manually changed.
_________________
Bristols should always come in pairs.

Any 2 from:-
Straight 6
V8 V10

[baconsdozen]

I drove a friends Lanchester a long while ago,the gearbox was easy to get used to and he reckoned it made a decent driver out of just about anyone.
_________________
Thirty years selling imperial hand tools for old machinery(Now happily retired).

[rjt10/4]

I can confirm that a pre select gearbox combined with a fluid fly wheel is a pleasure to use the lanchester changed gears very smoothly and without any fuss at all a pleasure to drive

[poodge]

The local bus company that i drove for for 20 odd years,ran AEC mk iv buses,with Wilson pre-select boxes.
You were severely chastised if you were found to be using 2nd gear to start off,even though most of the vehicles could easily do so.
Apparently,it caused slipping of the 2nd gear band,which resulted in high maintenance.
One wag found that that 2nd could be engaged by moving the selector only halfway through the 4th gear gate.
If you had a bus with a strong spring loading on the lever,this could give you quite a surprise,thinking you had neutral,and finding you were in 2nd!
Later vehicles all had the SCG electric change gearbox.Although easier from a drivers point of view(only 2 pedals),they gave the passengers a rougher ride.

[V8 Nutter]

General Motors used the principals of the Wilson box when they designed the first Hydra Matics, the fore runner of modern automatics. The Hydra Matic had 4 speeds an a hydraulic coupling the main difference between that and the Wilson was the hydraulic valve block that did the thinking for the driver.

Buick was the first to use a torque convertor in a car about 1948. They had used them in WWII in military vehicles