Classic cars forum & vehicle restoration.

[MikeEdwards]

I'm trying to get my Dad's Morris to start after a short hibernation. It's been running fine each time he tried it, but more recently it won't go.

I have been concerned about an apparent lack of spark, but when I held the coil king lead against the block and opened the points we get a nice spark.

I'm pretty sure there's petrol in there - when the car is turned on, the pump makes a noise as if it's pumping, then the next time it does not, implying that there's pressure in the fuel line by then. But, the plugs don't get wet after cranking it.

I've put a spark-tester in line with one of the plugs and it doesn't seem to light, but haven't yet had chance to try just holding a plug near the block. Some parts of the ignition and so on are quite old, but not really changed since the last time it ran so I'm not sure where to look, especially as I'm not familiar with the engine and mine has Lumenition so either works or doesn't. I've just put a new condenser on, just in case.

Any ideas, anyone? I've got a Crypton, but not at the same location and no means of transporting it around. In any case, that must be overkill for getting it to run, surely?

[ukdave2002]

Hi Mike

In my experience in a situation like this, its probably a combination of things that individually wouldn't stop it starting but combined do:

Petrol goes off quicker these days
Plugs may have a tad too much carbon on them
Carburettor enrichment may not quite be rich enough
Piston may be a tad sticky in the carb
Air filter may be a tad dirty
Possibly a small vacuum leak around the advance mechanism.

If the plugs are wet, then its getting probably enough fuel, I'd blast some easy start in and just see if it fires, if it doesn't its probably going to be ignition related.

If you need to shift it I have an empty trailer at home at the moment , just give me a shout.

Dave

[Minxy]

As above really.
I find fuel only good for 6 months at best.
Try holding the plug lead away from the plug a quarter of an inch and crank it to see if there is a spark - if not sounds like a rotor / cap issue

[Peter_L]

In years gone by, I made up a little test rig with four spark plugs in a piece of board. Drill undersize and use the plug as a die. Wrap copper wire around the threaded part of the plug and then solder on a piece of flexible wire and attach a crocodile clip to the end. Arrange the plugs so the gap can be seen from the side and add another piece of wood at the back so the spark will show up better.

Attach the clip to a 100% known earth, and attach the plug leads. Crank the engine and Hey ho. 4 nice sparks and look elsewhere.

I would sometimes use it with one lead at a time and run on 3 cylinders.

I also had an inline strobe light, if it flashes then that plug in the engine must have a spark, although the quality can't be judged.

The plug device helped be find a few faulty suppressor caps and leads.

Also a quick fuel check, take out a plug, or plugs, crank the engine with a finger or thumb near the plug hole and then sniff the said finger. No smell then there is no petrol.

Spark + Petrol + Compression, more often results in a runner. If it spits and bangs, then it is time to be analytical.

[kevin2306]

Any chance the mice have had a nibble?
Id go back to basics and check everything carefully, so spark then fuel delivery.

Kev

[MikeEdwards]

Thanks all, I will try some more and see what happens. The plugs don't get wet, which is what made me think the fuel might be an issue. Good point about the age of the fuel, it just doesn't seem to even be trying to start. The inline strobe on a plug lead is something I've had a go with, but one issue is that because the ignition switch is in the centre of the dash, I can't see it properly so will have to have another go at that.

Cheers for the note about the trailer Dave, I was actually talking about shifting the Crypton but moving the car is also an option, but worst case scenario recently. As I keep saying about my Vauxhall, it can't be that hard to get it going, it's not as if it's that complicated.

[Peter_L]

A push button with a couple of long leads, to jump the starter solenoid from under the bonnet.

Oh for the rubber tipped solenoids under the hood.

[PAUL BEAUMONT]

In the past I have had 2 problems that give the symptoms that you describe and have not been covered yet.
1. does it have an in-line suppressor fitted in the HT lead between the coil and the distributor? If it does this may well have broken down. These things are a B***dy nuisance.
2. Is the coil clamped to the dynamo? I had a case years ago where someone had tightened the clamp screw to the point where the coil case had cracked and it dumped most of the oil. It then randomly provided a spark then did not!

[lowdrag]

Most already covered, but I take the plugs out and put them in the oven for a while then have another go when they are still hot. Might work for you if it isn't anything more serious. I assume you have taken off the fuel feed to see there is fuel coming through though?

[MikeEdwards]

Today I've disconnected the fuel pipe and there's fuel there - I didn't try switching it on with the pipe disconnected as I hadn't got anything to hand to catch it in. I did try spraying some Easy Start down the carb, though, and that didn't help - doesn't even try to catch.

I was also able to try starting the car while holding a plug near the engine - nothing at all. So to me that suggests a problem with the rotor arm or distributor cap given that I have a spark from the coil when I manually open the points. I checked the points gap the other day.

I can't see a suppressor on any of the HT leads. The coil is on the other side of the engine, I can't remember what it's clamped to but it's at the opposite end to the dynamo.

[Dipster]

If you have a spark at the plugs (whip one out, earth it, and spin the motor over to see) then you should ask is fuel getting in the cylinders? I would take the air filter off (not inhabitated by creatures large or small?) and add a little (a little!) fresh fuel down the carb. If the engine attempts to cough or start on this limited amount I would look at something like the float needle. Probably not very "elfinsafety" in modern times but........

The comments about fuel going off are relevant so certainly worth considering. I have a modern small German petrol motor in a piece of machinery. The manufacturer is adamant that fuel beyond 3 months old should not be used as it will have deteriorated!

Oops, just seen your last post..... so forget this.

Look at the distributor.

Look at the rotor arm to see whether it is still in one piece. I spent an hour in the rain by the side of the road as a young man trying to figure out why a customer`s Vauxhall Ventora had stopped. It all worked apparently. But when I eventually took the rotor arm off the dizzy I noticed that the keyway piece in the base had broken. So it turned on the dizzy shaft with the cap off but the pressure pushing down on the rotor arm stopped it turning with the cap on!

My Dad rightly chastised me for forgetting mu ABCs. Assume nothing, Believe nothing and Check EVERYTHING. I had overlooked points 1 and 2....

[MikeEdwards]

That's the most frustrating bit Dipster - I've rebuilt my own car several times, even as recently as last year I was doing a lot of fiddling with the ignition to remind myself about points and so on, it's like I've forgotten everything just because it's a car I'm not familiar with.

I'm going to swap the cap and rotor to see if that helps. As I get a spark when I open the contacts it points to the start of the ignition circuit being OK, so must be somewhere further along. As we get nothing at all, not even an attempt to cough (and keep in mind before it stopped, it would start really easily and idle well) I'm assuming for now that it's not an individual plug lead as I'd expect it to try on one or two.

[Rick]

The old blue Volvo Amazon I ran years ago would randomly cut out. Fuel was getting through ok, and there was a spark at the points. It turned out to be the carbon brush in the top of the dizzy cap. Over time it'd shuffle up into the cap, breaking the contact with the rotor arm. Pulling it down a little on the spring, would re-enable contact and allow progress to resume.

RJ
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[exbmc]

Might be worth removing the float chamber top, and making sure the needle is able to move. I have had a couple of instances where the needle's nylon body has split and jammed in the seat housing. It sticks firm enough to resist pump pressure. Also, remove the dashpot, and check the needle has not fallen out. Clean piston with brake fluid while it's out.

[MikeEdwards]

Noted, I'll keep those things in mind. As it's getting no spark at the plugs at the moment, I figured I'd go there next.