Classic cars forum & vehicle restoration.

[Farmer John]

I would like to draw the attention of all my fellow classic vehicle enthusiasts to the possible dangers of brake cleaner when it is heated.
There is a great deal of information on the interweb, but all I have seen that is definitive is a warning from OSHA in USA. Maybe cans sold in the UK have a safety warning?
If someone with knowledge of the chemicals involved could tell us how dangerous it is that would be really useful. I read phosgene might be a result of heating?
Maybe with normal use it is considered safe. The risk arises when I have an oily or greasy piece of steel to weld and think aha! A squirt with brakekleen will sort that so give the metal a squirt but some liquid seeps into a crack where it remains trapped until I reach that point with my welder and "poof!", it evaporates instantly and squirts at my face. That was the last thing a metalworker saw, as he related the story on a site I frequent, until he recovered in hospital three days later.
So, does anyone know?

John

[ukdave2002]

John

Any liquid heated to its boiling point will evaporate, if it was water there would steam which may scald......... the brake cleaner I have states on the can that its both flammable and a skin irritant, I doubt these qualities will be diluted as the blast of instantly evaporated stuff escapes from the crack whilst probably burning an invisible ether flame.

I don't know what the ratio of liquid to gas brake cleaner is, but with water its 1700 times when its turned to steam, whatever it is there wouldn't have to be much brake cleaner in the crack to evaporate into something hot and nasty when introduced to a welding torch

Dave

[Rdover]

Google has been my best friend on this one ... I looked up the MSDS (Material Safety Data Sheet) for brakleen!

http://www.crcindustries.com/faxdocs/msds/5089.pdf

I understand some of it but the hazard classification gives the best guide I think:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hazardous_Materials_Identification_System

Health hazards
Skin corrosion/irritation Category 2 - Temporary or minor injury may occur
Carcinogenicity Category 1B - Irritation or minor reversible injury possible
inhalation Category 3 narcotic effect - Major injury likely unless prompt action is taken and medical treatment is given

So to summarise:
Follow the instructions.
Don't breathe it in, use in a well ventilated area and don't set it on fire where you're going to breathe it in. Use in appropriate quantities and store it safely and all will be well.

If we do the same for unleaded petrol .... nasty stuff

Flammable Liquid - Category 2
Skin Corrosion/Irritation - Category 2
Germ Cell Mutagenicity - Category 1B
Carcinogenicity - Category 1B
Toxic to Reproduction - Category 1A
Specific Target Organ Toxicity (Single Exposure) - Category 3 (respiratory irritation, narcosis)
Specific Target Organ Toxicity (Repeat Exposure) - Category 1 (liver, kidneys, bladder, blood, bone marrow,
nervous system)
Aspiration Hazard - Category 1


If there was one for booze then we'd all be in trouble
_________________
Richard

[norustplease]

Hi
Surely if you were arc or mig welding, you'd have a face mask on, which would help to deflect any vapours, plus, your arc would probably fail anyway, on a damp surface. I suppose if you were gas welding, then you might just have safety goggles on but really, you should always be considering that some kind of full face protection is essential as part of your PPE regime when welding, since there is always the risk of something spitting, especially if the workpiece is not completely clean.

There are all sorts of other risks inherent when welding car bodywork, not least of which is the danger of setting fire to any nearby wax filled box sections and hot underseal can also give off some extremely unpleasant fumes if the work area hasn't been cleaned off sufficiently.
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1953 Citroen Traction
1964 Volvo PV544
1957 Austin A55 Mk 1
Boring Tucson SUV

[Farmer John]

Hi all.
I opened this thread with the thought in mind that most of us visiting this forum would have heard nothing of the nasty compound that can be created when brake cleaner is exposed to heat.
Lookup phosgene. It can be created by the hydrocarbons and chlorides having heat applied and joining to produce phosgene, or strong UV light from electric welding doing the same thing as heat.
Lookup phosgene toxicity.
It is simply dangerous.
If there is dechlorinated brakleen available, that might be safer.However it begs the question, why would they change the formula?

John

[ukdave2002]

John

I fear you need the skills of a chemist and then a bilogest to really answer your question, the first to identify what chemicals may be gerated and the second to identify what sort of quantity would be required to do harm.

Its useful to be aleted to such potential risks, however if one is using a product like this for something it was never desiged for, then some responsibility must reside with the operator. The danger being that manufacturers are forced to change thier products and brake cleaner in the future will consist of lemmon juce mixed with concentrated rendered rose petals and not do half as good a job for the thing they were designed for

Dave

[Rdover]

Also bear in mind that products going by the same name are formulated differently in different Countries.

Biology remains the same, however
_________________
Richard

[Penguin45]