Classic cars forum & vehicle restoration.

[Rick]

This could be interesting, tonight 9pm C4.

http://www.channel4.com/programmes/inside-jaguar-making-a-million-pound-car

RJ
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[Ray White]

At first I was taken aback by Lord March's refusal to allow the new lightweight E types to race on his track but on reflection it is, I think, understandable. As he said they don't have replica cars racing at Goodwood.

These are not historic racing cars; they are new replicas.

As Shaun Lynn, who owns one of the original twelve Jaguar lightweight E type race cars said, the new cars, (despite their high price tag) will be worth considerably less than his car which is in fact car number 1 of the original twelve. In a race, the owner of a new lightweight would have much less to loose and therefore gain an unfair advantage.

When asked what he thought about Jaguar's announcement to build six more lightweights, Shaun Lynn said "from a historical perspective I think it's wrong...sullying to a certain extent the original race history that Jaguar had with the original lightweights and why they were so special".

Where then does this leave the buyer of a new Jaguar lightweight E Type? The cars are genuine Jaguar products and are identical to the original but they don't have the history and probably more importantly, they don't have the development which is at the heart of any race car.

Secondly, where does it leave Jaguar? Could they end up with egg on their face? Have all the cars been sold? Apparently, I have read, that as race cars, they are not road legal.

[Ronniej]

I watched the programme with great interest and thanks Rick for letting us know about it.
I had not thought about the cars being regarded as replicas until this was mentioned by Lord March.
I am not sure if I would simply dismiss them as replicas but their status is certainly open to question.
Ask yourself, if you had the means, would you really want one?
I doubt if I would derive much pleasure driving such a high value car (never mind racing it!) for fear of damaging it. This would mean it might stay in its (doubtless) air conditioned garage which defeats the whole purpose.
The money I spend indulging my old car hobby would be small change to the ultra-rich individuals these cars are targeted at. At the risk of getting political, in a world where many people don't have enough to eat is such extravagance right?

[Rick]

At the end of the day, they're beautifully put together racing cars, produced with the factory's blessing. They don't have history in themselves, but when viewed as fantastic cars in their own right, I'd happily own one.

RJ
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[Dipster]

I doubt if I would derive much pleasure driving such a high value car (never mind racing it!) for fear of damaging it.

This does not seem to bother those who actually race high value motors at all. I think of Nick Mason and his GTO for example. For many people nowadays a million is almost loose change......

[mikeC]

[Ray White]

Just a thought
Perhaps these six lightweights will compete with each other in replica race car racing? From what I remember, in the T.V. programme, competition use is part of the deal with Jaguar so I guess this matter is concentrating a few minds at the moment! I am sure Jaguar imagined that the new cars would be received as genuine lightweight E type racers but if they did, are they not forgetting something? The Jaguar company today is not the same animal (excuse the pun) as it was back in the '60s.

Considering you need to be invited to buy one in the first place I imagine there have been some interesting discussions!

Personally, I just feel totally excluded from the "elite" and even if I could afford to buy any car for over a million pounds, I doubt if I could ever justify such extravagance.

[colwyn500]

Whatever their status they are lovingly hand-crafted, beautiful machines.
Given time and opportunity, they will inevitably acquire their own history and patina.
How many "original" racers (not only Lighweight E-Types) are genuinely all that original? Does it matter anyway if they look the part and sound and function as they should?
The only practical thing the racing pedigree does is to raise the value to an even more eye-watering level.
Lord March is being elitist amongst elitists.
The programme was excellent in many ways.

[Ray White]

Isn't it a shame that money has a negative influence on almost everything. If the £1 million new cars were worth £5 million like the original lightweights are, I wonder if there would be the same resistance?

Another idea What if Jaguar were to invite Lord March to purchase one of the cars? If he bought one, he could then change his policy and allow (factory built) replicas entry to historic races at Goodwood and possibly see his investment show a five fold increase overnight!

I would be interested in hearing Lowdrag's views (if he is following this).

[lowdrag]

I posted elsewhere on this. I feel Lord March was put on the spot here, and having had quite a conversation with him during the Festival in 2011 I think I should explain his take on things. My "Kettle" C-type was invited to the Revival in 2009 and to race in the Festival of 2011. His explanation was that he would invite an FIA-papered replica providing that not one of the original cars exist. That seems fair to me and I've seen two replica Lancia Ferraris and a shark nose race just for that reason alone.

But, and a big but, last year at the Revival there was a race for D-types only. They didn't get enough "real" entries, so admitted other cars which, while bearing a D-type chassis number, are no more than replicas which have one part or another of the original car in them. Look at the history of many a D-type and you'll find that it was dismantled for spare parts or in one case sold off as spares to Ecurie Ecosse after a big shunt at Silverstone. Both these two cars now "exist", although, and a telling point, Jaguar have refused both a Heritage Certificate. So he was being economical with the truth I feel.

On the subject of the cars themselves, Jaguar never paid such attention in the day (couldn't afford to) and I feel that these cars will be classed, like the Sanction 2 Aston DB4 Zagatos, as second division cars, wandering in a sub-world of their own. One of the Sanction 2 cars was sold a couple of years back at the same price it was sold new. Compare that to the real thing if you will. And will the suitcase ever come out of it's case, or the watch be worn? I doubt it very much, since they are part of the buyer's "investment"

[colwyn500]

[Ashley]

[lowdrag]

How time moves on! The Bugatti Club under investigation by the DVLA, and the new lightweights unregisterable in the UK it would now seem!

[Ray White]

[JC T ONE]

Plenty of replica,s at Goodwood.

Here is 2 more with full story =

http://maximummini.blogspot.dk/2013/09/ogle-returns-to-goodwood-51-years-later.html

Not even the original plates on the car, wonder if any bit is from the original ?

Here is another replica =
http://www.swiftune.com/NewsArticle/164/swiftune-racing-mini-1275gt-in-gerry-marshal-trophy-race-at-goodwood.aspx

the original car = http://farm3.static.flickr.com/2070/2150500784_713b232b75.jpg
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