Classic cars forum & vehicle restoration.

[Whitegoatie]

I am off work at the minute, recuperating from an operation on my leg, so far I have been sat on the sofa for 7 days and starting to go a little crazy.

Posting about my car on the forum has been a distraction, as has watching an old favourite TV program, along with a new favourite, found on Youtube at the weekend.

In the Riley Register, 'Specials' are a very contentious issue, especially where a perfectly serviceable saloon has been ripped apart to create something that is going to deceive a future buyer into thinking it has a racing history, or is a poor replica of something, or a totally hideous creation that even its Mother would think 'it can't be mine'. I do understand the horror at the thought of another good car gone forever, but at the same time can see while people do it.

The TV programmes I have been watching are 'Shed and Buried' and 'Roadkill Garage'

To me they are similar, but done in very different ways.

Roadkill put old cars back on the road, they might go to a junk yard or a collector, find something, drag it into the owners work shop and start transforming it, using new parts and spares from the yard, they build something they can race or use. One episode they found a 67 mustang, it had been sat there for years, no one was going to restore it to its former glory, they put it on the road and had a heap of fun. The Americans don't seem sniffy about their cars, fix it, drive it is the mantra.

Shed and Buried, not so racey or flash, they visit collectors, horders even who have sheds, barns, fields full of old vehicles that in the main look to be rotting away neglected. And usually the owner wont sell at a reasonable price, or at all, because he 'has plans' for that vehicle or a sentimental attachment to it. Which is fair enough if you have a car and a few spare for donor parts etc to keep it on the road. But I suspect in a lot of cases, those old vehicles which could be saved and used, will sit there for another 10, 15, 20 years, until they are beyond repair, the owner passes away, and their heirs clear them out for scrap.

When you look at the way legislation is changing, it might not be many years before we can no longer use our old cars on the road.

So, whats the biggest crime, using a vehicle (regardless of condition) and building a special that gets put on the road and used, or hiding a car in a lock-up for 10 - 20 years with every good intention of doing it up but never quite getting there and blocking an enthusiast getting some joy out of it?

[Riley Blue]

What is very sad, is the habit of dealers (often from Germany and the Benelux countries) buying perfectly good, roadworthy examples of saloons only to separate body from chassis in the name of profit, which is what the Riley Register is up in arms about - it happens to other makes too.

What can be done about it? Nothing, apparently. You'd think the FBHVC would be the body to take action, or perhaps the VSCC, though neither, to my knowledge, has done so in any effective way.

All the while a saloon can be bought for £15 - 25,000 and turned into a special (sometimes with spurious competition history) worth upwards of £75,000 the practice will continue - greed rules...
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David

1963 Riley 1.5
1965 Riley 1.5

[Whitegoatie]

[alastairq]

Taking action is a difficult one at the best of times.

Much will depend on one's viewpoint of 'ownership?'

If we 'own' an old car...are we actually 'owners' of property, and free to do with it as we wish..?

Or , are we 'custodians' who, in exchange for an inordinate amount of cash, have the privilege of providing storage for the old car....on the assumption that eventually it will be 'passed' onto another custodian?

I belong firmly to the former camp. My Dellow was never bought as 'an investment'...somewhere to hide a small pot of cash. At least, that was the frame of mind I had when I bought it.
I don't really 'see' it as an 'old car' either....even though,patently, it is.
The vast majority of Dellows don't change hands with any degree of frequency.......usually coming on the market when the current owners find themselves physically unable to get in & drive them! {IE, long-term ownership]
Observations made by owners, when they get together, often shows 'dismay' at how much Dellow market values have risen recently. Like Series 1 Land-Rovers, they become 'too valuable' to use as intended...my chum has found he can no longer leave his ,any old place. as he used to.

I suppose the purchase of a saloon, and the separation of the body & chassis [for individual sale, or, the creation of a 'special?'] isn't a new trend.
Bentley Mk VI specials, as an old example?

It all comes down to, what we, as specific enthusiasts [of a marque or model]..are prepared and willing to do?
In respect of, putting 'our money where our mouths are?'

If the issue of splitting is worrisome...then why aren't the 'complete' vehicles' bought and stored/restored by those who complain?

I have seen, and knew of, many an old car that was up for sale...or, even, free to a good home......where the 'enthusiasts' did nothing [for whatever reasons]......so, the only alternative being, the cars went for scrap...or to someone who wanted to do something else with the remains.

It really is no use complaining about what an owner does with their property......unless one is prepared to provide an alternative course of action.
This attitude I have supported myself....and has pretty much led to at least 2 divorces!
But....has resulted in me becoming merely the temporary guardian of cars.....and still, they lay unwanted by other enthusiasts.....[still costs me 20 quid a month...out of my pension...in storage fees!!]....with me being unable or unwilling to sort the cars myself. Basically, I have taken-over from the previous owner!!
WHen I took a couple to scrap...[perfectly restorable, but unwanted by enthusiasts]....because I had to move house....there was minor uproar....but, as I say, no-one was prepared to 'take over'...or, put their money where their mouths were'.

I find I now have to exercise discipline when it comes to 'saving for Posterity...[whoever she is?], the stuff I come across.....ideas, like food.....are subject to 'eye's being bigger than stomachs'
Also, I don't possess crystal balls....so what I can do now, may not be what I will be able to do next week. Dieting so's I can live to be 100 doesn't work when one gets hit by a bus.
I suspect most on here have been there at some time?

I'm guilty of 'seeing potential' everywhere too...

[Rootes75]

I too have been offered many saveable classics and have had to turn them down due to space and finances. Some as I recall have ended up being scrapped.

It is a shame but we can't save everything and sometimes there just aren't that many enthusiasts about.
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Various Rootes Vehicles.

[Ray White]

I have a theory that as the demographic changes so does the old car movement. It would seem that younger people today are less interested in preserving our motoring heritage; especially if it is not part of their personal experience. This could be a problem for the future if the value of veteran, vintage and classic cars had not proved to be resilient as an investment. This does not necessarily mean that all is well, however because our hobby needs to be fun. As Badhuis reminds us; a car stops being fun when it becomes an investment.!

We are all aware that interest in older vehicles is a broad church with differing opinions regarding originality and historic relevance so perhaps it is not surprising that the actions of some will agitate others.

My views on hotrods is well known here but my opinions regarding replicas and specials is less well known. As I see it, there must be good reasons for tearing down a tatty, low value if historic saloon to create an entirely different vehicle. Taking part in historic racing and other motor sports is an entirely legitimate reason whereas parading a highly modified vehicle ostensibly as being of historic value, is I suggest not.

It would, in my opinion, be a tragedy for our motoring heritage if we were to go down the same road as the U.S.A. where the ravenous passion for hot rods has done serious and irrepairabe damage.

[Riley Blue]

[Rootes75]

There is a farmer in the next village who has a 1939 Singer Ten, he found it in a barn in the village. He bought it for next to nothing and then upon having the engine stripped by someone else they quoted him £4k for the rebuild.

As you can imagine the car is still sat in his barn and he has said he is quite happy to let it stay there.

Such a waste.

I imagine this is going on up and down the country.
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Various Rootes Vehicles.

[Ray White]

One of my relatives has a dismantled 1930 Austin Swallow saloon languishing in the back of her garage. Same model as mine. I have tried to buy it but she is happy to let it stay there. Shame. I would give her a good price for it but she doesn't need the money.

[Whitegoatie]

[Whitegoatie]

[Ray White]

[Whitegoatie]

Maybe one day...

I bet there are countless cars like that languishing in garages, not even SORN, so completely unknown, lost to the world...

[Ray White]

[Whitegoatie]