Classic cars forum & vehicle restoration.
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alastairq
Joined: 14 Oct 2016
Posts: 2117
Location: East Yorkshire
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 Posted: Fri Aug 21, 2020 10:37 am Post subject: Resource for oil drain plug threads? |
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Found this whilst looking for oversize oil drain plug threads for my Ford Mustang...
Thought it might be useful?
Aside from the products themselves, there are the tables of sizes....
http://www.quickvalve.co.uk/index.htm
Go in and look?
[The Fumoto oil drain valve is a topic in itself...]
It appears Ford 200 -6 engines, and V8s...and GM engines, etc are known for stripping sump plug threads...there being several 'oversize' products available even via Amazon...I discovered that someone previously had already stripped the sump pan thread..and used an oversize drain plug..Which is a pain really.
I wonder if, worst comes to worst, I can get a 1/4" BSP plug to 'bite?'
At the moment, the Mustang is trying to emulate a Land Rover...
[Next oil change might be via the dipstick hole???]
_________________
Dellow Mk2, 1951 built, reg 1952.
Fiat 126 BIS
Cannon special [1996 registered. Built in 1950's]
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Ford Pop chassis, Ashley 1172 bodyshell, in pieces. |
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Ray White
Joined: 02 Dec 2014
Posts: 7079
Location: Derby
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alastairq
Joined: 14 Oct 2016
Posts: 2117
Location: East Yorkshire
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| Posted: Fri Aug 21, 2020 4:43 pm Post subject: |
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| Ray White wrote: | http://www.quickvalve.co.uk/bsp12.htm?veh=MG%20TB%20to%20TF%201250,%201466%20(XPAG/XPEG%20petrol)%201939-1955
Not available for my car. |
Oh dear......dear oh dear.....pipe fittings???
_________________
Dellow Mk2, 1951 built, reg 1952.
Fiat 126 BIS
Cannon special [1996 registered. Built in 1950's]
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Ford Pop chassis, Ashley 1172 bodyshell, in pieces. |
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peter scott
Joined: 18 Dec 2007
Posts: 7211
Location: Edinburgh
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| Posted: Fri Aug 21, 2020 4:44 pm Post subject: |
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Gives me visions of losing the oil when traversing the long grass!
Peter 
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https://www.nostalgiatech.co.uk
1939 SS Jaguar 2 1/2 litre saloon |
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alastairq
Joined: 14 Oct 2016
Posts: 2117
Location: East Yorkshire
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| Posted: Fri Aug 21, 2020 5:07 pm Post subject: |
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Most of my vehicles leave the grass tips a back colour when traversing.....
_________________
Dellow Mk2, 1951 built, reg 1952.
Fiat 126 BIS
Cannon special [1996 registered. Built in 1950's]
----------------------------------------------
Ford Pop chassis, Ashley 1172 bodyshell, in pieces. |
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Ray White
Joined: 02 Dec 2014
Posts: 7079
Location: Derby
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| Posted: Fri Aug 21, 2020 5:14 pm Post subject: |
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| alastairq wrote: | | Most of my vehicles leave the grass tips a back colour when traversing..... |
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Bitumen Boy
Joined: 26 Jan 2012
Posts: 1763
Location: Above the snow line in old Monmouthshire
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| Posted: Sat Aug 22, 2020 3:30 am Post subject: |
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| peter scott wrote: | Gives me visions of losing the oil when traversing the long grass!
Peter |
They do a "safety clip" to guard against that. How effective such a clip might be though...  |
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alastairq
Joined: 14 Oct 2016
Posts: 2117
Location: East Yorkshire
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| Posted: Sat Aug 22, 2020 10:05 am Post subject: |
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Regarding the item concerned, they do address that issue in their FAQs...
But, as I said in my first post, the thing isn't my primary concern....I found that listing the threads etc for a few hundred different sum plugs to be useful.
Especially when I find that a PO has already stripped the standard threads...and started off on the 'oversizes'....got the existing plug miked up yesterday, to try to find out what I had actually got [not what it was supposed to have?]
These oversize plugs are quite hard...unlike the original items...?
Self tapping sump plugs...Grrrr!
_________________
Dellow Mk2, 1951 built, reg 1952.
Fiat 126 BIS
Cannon special [1996 registered. Built in 1950's]
----------------------------------------------
Ford Pop chassis, Ashley 1172 bodyshell, in pieces. |
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Ray White
Joined: 02 Dec 2014
Posts: 7079
Location: Derby
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| Posted: Sat Aug 22, 2020 11:16 am Post subject: |
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| I just don't get it. There is no need to tighten the plug any more than is required to squish the copper washer. After all, it is the washer that does the sealing, not the threads; they are just the means of holding the copper washer in place. If the threads are a bit loose then apply a dab of thread lock. |
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alastairq
Joined: 14 Oct 2016
Posts: 2117
Location: East Yorkshire
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| Posted: Sat Aug 22, 2020 1:29 pm Post subject: |
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| Ray White wrote: | | I just don't get it. There is no need to tighten the plug any more than is required to squish the copper washer. After all, it is the washer that does the sealing, not the threads; they are just the means of holding the copper washer in place. If the threads are a bit loose then apply a dab of thread lock. |
No, I don;t suppose it's really an issue for us Brits?
The problem is, previous owners have maybe over-tightened the plug....
The thread in the oil pan then strips [or, the original plug thread strips?]...The plug will then not nip up to whatever sort of seal has been used. [copper or fibre, for example]
As has been noted in other threads..we, here, now, cannot account or allow for what previous owners have..or have not done?
Anyway....stripping the threads in a [Ford?] sump has been a common enough problem in the USA....to the extent every corner shop carries a selection of slightly oversize drain plugs, to the normal US thread. [1/2" 20 TPI UNF]...
These plugs are quite hard, have tapered bases, and thread-cutter slots as well.
So, once fitted, they can bite a new thread into the oil pan metal, become secure, and seal.
My problem is, one of these has been used on my car....I found it no longer 'bit' the sump threads, so failed to make a secure seal[using a copper washer]...
Since I don't know what I had, I went down the route of measuring the plug, and trying to find out what or how these 'oversized' sump plugs were?
Hence I discovered the above online resource from a drain plug supplier...
Since a new replacement sump for my 53 yer old engine is priced between £170 and £350 depending on whether I get one from the uSA, or a UK spares dealer......that is not the sort of money I wish to find & lay out....not having a decent sort of bank balance.
I found the table useful in identifying what I can do to recover the threads, what new thread I could use, and what more easily accessible vehicles had plugs to that thread?
bearing in mind, the sump plug MUST have a certain degree of pressure to make the seal..be that seal copper, fibre,plastic or whatever.
Since my existing plug is already an oversize [oversized by bare fractions of a millimeter...enough to cut a new thread on an exiting, worn, hole]..simply tapping and chasing out the drain hole isn't going to work.
Oversized plugs are cheap as chips in the USA, from every corner shop, as noted above. Quite the opposite here in the UK....where common US threads are rare as hens whatsits.
I have methods in hand to rectify the problem....in the meantime...since I want to use my old banger[sorry, classic car]....I have made do with a sealer and a gentle touch , finger tight.
However, stripping sump plugs is not an uncommon occurrence even here in our UK......Hence draining old oil out by use of pumps [down the dipstick hole]...etc, in preference to risking what might be a dodgy plug thread?
I had this issue last oil change.....but got away with it with an infrequent drip..
I haven't even used a spanner to tighten the thing up...merely a socket over the head, and my fingers turning the socket..with a rag for grip ..slippery stuff, old oil.
The link at the start was to a resource giving information regarding sizes, threads.....and who had what......?
It happened to be provided by a firm that made drain plugs which didn't need to be undone....
That seems to have created a massive red herring to folk....
_________________
Dellow Mk2, 1951 built, reg 1952.
Fiat 126 BIS
Cannon special [1996 registered. Built in 1950's]
----------------------------------------------
Ford Pop chassis, Ashley 1172 bodyshell, in pieces. |
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Penman
Joined: 23 Nov 2007
Posts: 4850
Location: Swindon, Wilts.
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| Posted: Sat Aug 22, 2020 1:45 pm Post subject: |
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Hi
What metal is the Mustang sump?
Can a thin nut be welded to the outside of it and then a suitable bolt and washer be used.?
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Bristols should always come in pairs.
Any 2 from:-
Straight 6
V8 V10 |
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Ray White
Joined: 02 Dec 2014
Posts: 7079
Location: Derby
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| Posted: Sat Aug 22, 2020 2:43 pm Post subject: |
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Threads used in aluminium should ideally be UNC or Whitworth.
Whatever, they need to be a course thread. |
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ukdave2002
Joined: 23 Nov 2007
Posts: 4231
Location: South Cheshire
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| Posted: Sat Aug 22, 2020 3:31 pm Post subject: |
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You could use a suitable Devcon (or similar) putty in the original tapping, and then re-cut the thread to suit the original plug .
Dave |
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Peter_L
Joined: 10 Apr 2008
Posts: 2680
Location: New Brunswick. Canada.
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| Posted: Sat Aug 22, 2020 5:02 pm Post subject: |
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alastairq
Joined: 14 Oct 2016
Posts: 2117
Location: East Yorkshire
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| Posted: Sat Aug 22, 2020 6:35 pm Post subject: |
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Thanks folks, but remedies were already underway..
As I tried to explain..I don't have an 'original' plug.
But, I wanted to see what I actually have...given that it is a proper 'oversize' plug sold by many US corner shops for sorting this common problem...[and not just with Fords either].
None of the adverts for oversize plugs would give any information other than 'oversize'...'double oversize', and 'treble oversize'...[After that it is either devcon, or a replacement [new] sump]. Hence, when I discovered these special oil drain plugs, and the tables of threads, oversizes, and stuff, including which manufacturer used what....I was impressed.
I now know what I've got. I also know what I cannot do, in the normal sense of the phrase...due to costs.
The engine is a bog standard Ford product used in Falcons, Mustangs, Fairlanes, Broncos, vans and all sorts of other wheeled stuff from Ford. [It was made & used for decades from the 1960's...getting larger and larger]
The thread s & plugs were also used right across Ford's engine range [and, Jeeps, and GMs, etc etc]
The sumps are pressed steel.
The only variations being, front hump, middle hump, or rear hump.
But complete [new? ] sumps are not so easy to come by in the UK...So preservation rules unless I inherit something I didn't know about?
_________________
Dellow Mk2, 1951 built, reg 1952.
Fiat 126 BIS
Cannon special [1996 registered. Built in 1950's]
----------------------------------------------
Ford Pop chassis, Ashley 1172 bodyshell, in pieces. |
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