Classic cars forum & vehicle restoration.

[admin]

Hi all

Received these pics down the line recently, anyone know what era of bike, or assembled pieces, we've got here? the bike is in Oz, I don't know if the missing parts are with it or not sadly




Rick

[Uncle Joe]

The front forks look like the old Harley Springers, but the motor...

That looks suspiciously like a 1000cc JAP 8/80. They were used mainly in Brough Superiors - the Rolls Royce of motorcycles, and I think early Cooper racing cars.

At least up until a couple of years ago - which for me could be 15 or 20 - they were still available!

Referring to another post, Best engine ever? we never put bike engines in did we?

[alfanut]

Looks like a sidecar speedway outfit to me, the tread on the bikes tyres and the inward-leaning sidecar wheel give it away. I think the sport was popular in Oz, so that figures too. As a little lad, I remember it coming to Harringay Speedway sometime in the fifties, but I don't think the sport ever caught on in England. The outfit looks pretty complete except for primary chain carburretors and tailpipes, I don't remember any silencers Does the engine with twin pushrod tubes look similar to those on prewar Morgan Three-wheelers?
Finally with the sidecar wheel leaning THAT way, wouldn't the outfits lap clockwise, and not the normal way?

[Uncle Joe]

Yes, some Morgan 3 wheelers did use a JAP V-twin, I'm going out on a limb here, but I seem to remember that though they did look similar, with the exposed pushrod tubes, the Morgan JAP's were watercooled.

It could be correct that it is a speedway, or maybe a grass track outfit, because quite often, the 8/80 ran on methanol...and if memory serves, they did go round the track clockwise. I will admit though, I could be wrong there, speedway has never really interested me.

UJ

[Mog]

I am only about 12 mths. late in seeing this thread.
I owned 5 Morgan 3-wheelers as a teenager. They were not normally fitted with a/c. JAP engines. The air cooled JAP's were fitted for racing or land speed record attemps . They held a number of world records at over 100 mph. One of my Morgans had an a/c JAP on the front. The engine was built about 1925 and was known as a KTOR and had exposed push rods. The T stood for twin, the O for overhead and R for racing. The con rods and internals were highly polished. It developed 45 bhp. The next model was the 8/80 JAP also known as the JTOR. By changing the compression ratio it would run on petrol or methonal, the jets in the carby would have to be changed. I think it developed 55 bhp on petrol and 80 bhp on methonal but I am not sure. It had enclosed push rods. Both engines were around 980 c.c. Later on another vee twin was developed of about 1100 c.c. and was unlike the two earlier ones. This was the one that was used in Cooper cars.
I would say that the photos show a speedway outfit that never got finished. It has a Norton box but the clutch is missing. For circuit racing, I think it would be on petrol. These engines were often used on drag bikes.

[Mog]

For anybody that wants to see some photo's of Morgan 3-wheelers you can go to the club's web site. www.mtwc.co.uk/

[Ashley]

Have a look at www.cameronracingengines.com

[Mog]

You beat me to it ! Ewan Cameron builds new JAP engines. The white hair guy is his father Tim Cameron, I went to the same school as Tim. He was 1 or two years older than me. He used to come to school in his Morgan 3-wheeler. Reading their web-site, some of the things I said about JAP engines are not correct, just going off my memory. I have not spoken to Tim Cameron for at least 42 years, he used to come to my house, in Stourbridge, from time to time with Dave Shotton. They never had any headlights on their Morgan, just drove on side lights! I only found the web site yesterday, I have sent them an e-mail and waiting for a reply.