Classic cars forum & vehicle restoration.

[ukdave2002]

Looking at JLR's well published woes, got me wondering if its issues represent the tip of the iceberg for European manufacturing?

One of the reasons JLR cited for its problems was loosing sales to the like of Jaecoo (the Temu Range Rover), which sells for a third of the price of a JLR Range Rover. Whilst IMHO the Jaecoo is a very different proposition to a Range Rover, people are buying them.

Volkswagen is executing its largest restructuring programme to date, actively proposing up to 100,000 job cuts and targeting the phase-out or shutdown of multiple German manufacturing plants.

Only a few years ago we had never heard of Jaecoo, BYD, Omoda, Leapmotor, yet today our roads are full of them.

What do you think the future is for European manufacturing?

[Penguin45]

Without the ICE, I suspect that there is little future at all for the mainstream European manufacturers.

Chris.
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'67 Wolseley MkI 18/85, '70 Austin MkII 1800 The Landcrab Forum.

[bjacko]

In Australia we lost our local manufacturing a few years ago when Holden (GM) Ford and Toyoto all closed down. Most of the cars on our roads are now Chinese cars using technology copied from Western manufacturers who have given the technology to them by getting their cars made in China. The same has happened with many other products, and now China is laughing at the stupid Western countries all the way to the bank. The aircraft industry is another industry heading the same way with Airbus getting aircraft made in China!
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1938 Morris 8 Ser II Coupe Utility (Pickup)
1985 Rover SD1 VDP

[Rick]

It's looking pretty bleak right now isn't it, why anyone would buy a Chinese car is beyond me as it's clear what's happening, but there it is.

RJ
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Rick - Admin
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[Ray White]

Nothing lasts forever. It seems to me that China is where it is at right now... and because they are adopting manufacturing on such a massive scale the rest of the World is in terminal decline.

There is however potential for longer term hope as the Chinese will find to their cost. At the end of the day they will always need a market in which to sell their products; be it cars or anything else. In other words, China needs the rest of the World to be wealthy enough to be its customers.

How this will all pan out I don't know but I remember we had a similar situation with Japan and now we all seem happy to buy a Toyota.

My wife has always liked new cars and has just bought a new Lexus. She is not impressed with Chinese cars but that is because of the way they look.

Personally, I am happy to just let other people throw their money at new cars and if I can buy a used car cheaply then I will. I wouldn't buy a Chinese one though.

[Rootes75]

I agree, it is looking pretty bleak. But I suppose that is change isn't it? Everything has a lifespan and things move in cycles.

I see lots of cars on the roads now that I have no clue who makes them.
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Various Rootes Vehicles.

[alastairq]

I get the impression that, what is happening is, the younger generations of new car acquirers [how many folk are even allowed to 'buy' these days?] have zero interest in how a car drives, or works. All they want is the 'tech!'

The Chinese realised this, so load their products up with 'tech,', which appeals to the new generations going online, or [surprisingly?], walking into dealers' showrooms.

The real losers in the driving world will be the 2nd hand [or, pre-owned..FFS?] car buyers.

For all these products are not designed, or intended, to last much beyond the expiry date of the guarantee!
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Dellow Mk2, 1951 built, reg 1952.
Fiat 126 BIS
Cannon special [1996 registered. Built in 1950's]
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Ford Pop chassis, Ashley 1172 bodyshell, in pieces.

[Rusty]

[alastairq]

I hear tell...China's biggest manufacturing advantages [over the rest of the world] are, very short, but reliable, supply chains?
_________________
Dellow Mk2, 1951 built, reg 1952.
Fiat 126 BIS
Cannon special [1996 registered. Built in 1950's]
----------------------------------------------
Ford Pop chassis, Ashley 1172 bodyshell, in pieces.

[Ray White]

[Rusty]

I went to China a few years ago with a friend that imported tractors, 4x4 motorbikes and sundry other things, from China and the thing that got me at the factory, run by "Futaeine heavy industries" makers of "Foton" utes and trucks in the factory at Weifang city that I visited was the "number" of employees they had doing minor tasks. I went up to a station that was assembling the rear axles and asked through our interpreter what the assembler was doing painting the gear teeth of the crown wheel and pinions in the differential assembly, and his "job" was to "paint the teeth", He had no idea "why"! The reason if he had been in a "western" plant was to run the "red lead" through the mesh of the teeth to check the alignment of the teeth so adjustments could be made if necessary, but he didn't do adjustments, he just left visible evidence that the mesh had been checked! (which it hadn't). If you looked at it, it "appeared" to be done, but it hadn't. One of my mates in the bush bought one of their tractors and had several trouble free years out of it before he sold his farm, and I gave him a hand to set up his clearing sale, and the day before the sale "one hung low" (what he called the tractor) started running on three cylinders, so we checked and isolated the cylinder and I pulled the injector to find a piece of lathe "swarf" on the pintle. We cleaned it off and it was running fine for the sale, but the point is that "no" western built machine would have that happen because quality control wouldn't allow it, but as we head in a race to the bottom, minor things like this are happening "everywhere" and I don't see where it's going to end. Everyone is taking shortcuts and accepting the "lowest common denominator" to stay with "the herd" as we charge forward towards the cliff! I have no idea where it will end, but it's not going to be pretty!!!

[ukdave2002]

[Rootes75]

In my day job as a Design Engineer I have worked with many Chinese companies, as so many things we now design in this country and then have things manufactured in China.

In my experience the quality of Chinese machined parts is terrible, one batch recently had a 90% fail rate upon inspection when it arrived with us and was checked off by our audit team. Its simply poor quality mass produced at a fraction of the price we can manufacture for.

Lets face it, in Engineering, the same as any industry now we simply want to shed costs and to that end manufacture in China is great. But what you get simply doesn't stand up to what we can produce. But we our consumer led and the average Joe these days doesn't care how it was made or tbh the quality. They only care about the price and if it works when they buy it not a year or two later.
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Various Rootes Vehicles.

[alastairq]

I have posted this before, it concerns the time I purchased an oil pump for a Ford 100E engine.

There was little if any price difference between a used pump [but doubtless...fingers crossed....checked by someone trustworthy in the Club]...and a new item, made in China ! {to a UK supplier's specs]

However, in the past I had a nagging voice offering advice....So, on arrival...instead of simply bolting the shiny thing in place, and going off on my merry way...I stripped it down.

Inside I found a large quantity of hard stuff...Casting sand.

It took some clearing out, but I did it.....I also had to slightly modify the top casting as my 100E had a 'full' flow external oil filter system [courtesy of Aquaplane, via Bill Cooper]...

I did wonder how many, less suspicious owners would have bolted the shiny thing in place, without first checking it?

Could this suspected total reliance and trust be a reason why old cars are considered to be less reliable than today's brand spankers new stuff?

[Aside from being more easliy fixable....?]
_________________
Dellow Mk2, 1951 built, reg 1952.
Fiat 126 BIS
Cannon special [1996 registered. Built in 1950's]
----------------------------------------------
Ford Pop chassis, Ashley 1172 bodyshell, in pieces.

[Ray White]

Although the political scene was completely different, I recall how when Japan started manufacturing for the West the quality was laughable.

We are not laughing now.

I see the same thing happening in India. They started making goods for a fraction of the price that we could do it for because they paid poverty wages.

Things in India are now changing. For example, the Tata family who own Jaguar Land Rover will eventually close down in the U.K. and move all production to India (or maybe China)

...and so it goes on.

Given time, the Chinese will up their game and then the hunt will be on for another developing economy in which cheap labour is readily available. I fully expect Africa to fill the void.

The downside to that idea is that Africans generally have never shown any interest in adopting he Western philosophy of a "work ethic"..but then with jobs becoming ever more automated I doubt that will matter much in the future.
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