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Ricky426



Joined: 18 Mar 2008
Posts: 48
Location: Italy

PostPosted: Tue Mar 18, 2008 5:32 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Uncle Joe wrote:
Yet another urban myth to discuss.

Yes, by our standards, US cars did wallow. But americans preferred comfort to handling. Try one that is fitted with the optional heavy duty suspension package, and you will soon see that they will outhandle any british car of similar size and weight....

One of the reasons that I enjoy my 300 is the fact that it is fitted with the letter series suspension option. ie, from the factory lowered and stiffened with heavy duty shocks....handles beautifully, even though you lot probably wont believe me! Laughing Laughing Laughing

I believe you, my dear!
Yes, because I have a car like yours, a Mopar C-body with heavy duty package suspension, which consists in: front .980" torsion bars, front 7/8" sway bar and 6 1/2 heavy leafs per side in the rear. And the car handles very well, despite the heavy weight! The torsion bars are simply fantastic, and the entire front suspension system is highly tuneable and really well engineered.
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Uncle Joe
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PostPosted: Tue Mar 18, 2008 5:35 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

And remember guys, Ricky426 is from Italy, otherwise known as the country that knows how to make cars handle properly! Laughing
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Ricky426



Joined: 18 Mar 2008
Posts: 48
Location: Italy

PostPosted: Tue Mar 18, 2008 5:37 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Uncle Joe wrote:
And remember guys, Ricky426 is from Italy, otherwise known as the country that knows how to make cars handle properly! Laughing

Of course, and the country with the worse streets in the entire Europe!
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stuchamp



Joined: 23 Nov 2007
Posts: 549
Location: Iowa, USA

PostPosted: Tue Mar 18, 2008 7:38 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

You should see the roads here. We have more potholes than the moon has craters. Actually, I think we have a few of them craters also! Laughing
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Brian M



Joined: 23 Nov 2007
Posts: 783
Location: Leigh-on-Sea, Essex

PostPosted: Wed Mar 19, 2008 12:03 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Uncle Joe wrote:
And remember guys, Ricky426 is from Italy, otherwise known as the country that knows how to make cars handle properly! Laughing


And of course Fiat, Alfa Romeo, Maserati, Ferrari, Lamborghini, all start with two tonnes of car and then modify the heavyweight suspension to try to keep the car on the road?

I don't think so!

How many of your Mopars have aluminium components in their suspension?
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Brian
1970 Volvo Amazon and 1978 Safari 15-4 Caravan
Classic Safari Forum: www.classicsafaris.co.uk
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Ricky426



Joined: 18 Mar 2008
Posts: 48
Location: Italy

PostPosted: Wed Mar 19, 2008 9:15 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Brian M wrote:
Uncle Joe wrote:
And remember guys, Ricky426 is from Italy, otherwise known as the country that knows how to make cars handle properly! Laughing


And of course Fiat, Alfa Romeo, Maserati, Ferrari, Lamborghini, all start with two tonnes of car and then modify the heavyweight suspension to try to keep the car on the road?

I don't think so!

How many of your Mopars have aluminium components in their suspension?

There were different purposes in mind were cars were developed in USA in the 50s and 60s. Large, straight streets, and hundreds of miles between cities, so the cars had to be comfortable rather to handle. And in the USA there were plenty of iron, and much richness, so cars were big, heavy and loaded with lots of stuff. And gasoline was really cheap, so who cared about mpg? The american workman of the 60s wanted a big car, with a big engine, with lots of options. Handling was considered at the bottom of the list. But the Mopars were always a shift ahead, with the front torsion bars, with the unibody construcion started in 1960, and in general a much better engineering for the suspensions. I drove a 67 full size Chevrolet for a year and there is no comparison with my 66 Chrysler. Of course, a Maserati or Ferrari or Lambo of the same time can handle much better, but remember that are cars for the few, because really expensive, while a Mopar (Plymouth, Dodge, De Soto...) was a car for the people. In the Italy of the 60s, a father of family, if lucky and in good economical conditions, can own a Fiat 600. While in the USA, the same man owned a Plymouth Belvedere. I don't think the 600 handles better than the Belvy...

Then, I am doing much work on my car because I want a race car, with the monster engine I will fit under the hood, all the parts must handle the power. But you can trust me, if you want, my car handles well, and if decided to keep the original engine there was no need to upgrade the suspension. Car is low and keeps the direction of the driver in every turn, even if the sensation is to slide on the front bench! And the driver MUST keep in mind that the car is DAMN heavy!

Mopars had no aluminium components in the suspensions, but you have to compare them (if you want) with the same class of cars. So a comparison between a Mopar and a Lamborghini simply doesn't exist! I don't remember all the suspension types of the Italian cars of the 60s, but the average car has nothing exotic and no aluminum for sure.
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Brian M



Joined: 23 Nov 2007
Posts: 783
Location: Leigh-on-Sea, Essex

PostPosted: Wed Mar 19, 2008 10:22 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Uncle Joe wrote:
Why do I get the feeling that BrianM doesnt like american cars, and Mopars in particular? Laughing


UJ

It is not american cars I don't like, it is European owners of 60's and 70's models who proclaim that their cars are the greatest examples of automotive engineering and totally ignore their shortcomings for use on the roads of Europe (all parts of it, from the frozen north to the Mediterranean!)

For example -
their cars are too long for normal domestic garages and street parking spaces

too wide for use in our small country lanes, and village high streets

abysmal packaging - why carry round a two metre square boot (trunk) and then put your shopping on the back seat!

the consumption of prodigious amounts of our very expensive petrol (gasoline!)

Even the US manufacturers have recognised the error of their ways and now produce smaller, more efficient models.

To demonstrate that it is not American cars I dislike:

From 1984 to 1990 I worked for an American owned company in the UK and visited their Headquarters in Southern California two or three times each year. I did a deal with my bosses that I could only hire a compact for the working week, but could have something a bit special for the weekend. So every Friday night I would be at the local Hertz or Avis branch negotiating for a Camaro, Corvette, Mustang, Riviera or even (Whisper it) a Lincoln Continental. Most of which I thoroughly enjoyed driving in the environment for which they were intended. In various visits I covered from the Mexico border almost to Oregon in the north on a mixture of freeways and smaller roads, as well as a lot of city driving in Los Angeles and San Francisco.

I have owned a Mopar for the last seven years in the form of a cheaply bought and somewhat battered 1995 Jeep Cherokee. After 60000 miles in my ownership, taking it to 160000 miles, it is now reaching the end of its useful life but will be replaced by a Grand Cherokee, as I consider them to be far superior to Range Rovers or Shoguns.

Nuff said. Very Happy
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Brian
1970 Volvo Amazon and 1978 Safari 15-4 Caravan
Classic Safari Forum: www.classicsafaris.co.uk
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Uncle Joe
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PostPosted: Wed Mar 19, 2008 11:06 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

To answer your points Brian:

Maybe its not te cars that are too long for normal domestic garages, but the garages that are too small anyway! I really feel sorry for those amongst us that restore in an average english garage. As far as parking goes, I never had any problems during the time I lived in England. Or even when I have been visiting for that matter with my full size late model. Size is just something to get used to. Ask any lorry driver.

In the UK, during recent years, I have only encountered one problem on village high streets or country roads. That was caused by an idiot parking on a road junction...There are a lot of twisty roads in Italy, but I'll bet that Ricky426 has never had any problem there either....

I see people putting their shopping on the rear seats of most cars...thats nothing to do with the car, just that particular person being lazy.

Now then, to fuel consumtion. Of course, an american car drinks more fuel than the average british one of the sixties. Thats not something that is possible to dispute. But, the difference is, most british cars had smaller engines, so its like comparing chalk and cheese. The first US car I bought was a 66 Fury III with a 5.2 litre engine. That replaced an Austin Westminster. The difference in mpg was amazing. The Plymouth did no less than 7mpg MORE....
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Ricky426



Joined: 18 Mar 2008
Posts: 48
Location: Italy

PostPosted: Wed Mar 19, 2008 11:35 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Just to add some words... in the 60s there was plenty of space in the US. Space in the streets, with many lanes, space in the parking lots, and space in their garage. Money was not a problem, nor gasoline, nor steel. Why they sould choose a Mini? Something different now, money IS a problem, and gas too, with price atound 3,60 $ per gallon. So cars were downsized, and engines, too.
In the europe there NEVER was the prosperity of the 50s and 60s of the USA, so cars never grewth to 220 inches long. Full sizes of the 60s are an emblem of a wors that doesn't exist anymore.

Talking about today, and of my car... well is not a problem to go anywhere. You can drive, more or less, anywhere you want. Just avoid the tighter streets if you can. The problems are with the others, because the cars are subjected to vandalism (and not for the size) and with neglect of other drivers, expecially in the parking lots. The only problem I have is mpg! Rolling Eyes
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