classic car forum header
Classic cars forum & vehicle restoration.
 FAQFAQ   SearchSearch   MemberlistMemberlist   UsergroupsUsergroups 
 ProfileProfile   Log in to check your private messagesLog in to check your private messages   Log inLog in 
How To Register     Posting Photographs     Privacy Policy     F/book facebook.com/oldclassiccar

Triumph engine question.
Goto page 1, 2  Next
Post new topic   Reply to topic    Classic cars forum & vehicle restoration. Forum Index -> Mechanical Restoration
Author Message
Old-Nail



Joined: 23 Nov 2007
Posts: 854

PostPosted: Tue Mar 25, 2008 3:05 pm    Post subject: Triumph engine question. Reply with quote

I'm considering buying a 1950's Standard 10 but as I use my cars most days it may need an engine upgrade.

I know that the later Triumph Herald unit slots straight in, but what about the Triumph Spitfire 1500 unit?
Has anyone any idea if one of those will drop in easily like a herald unit would?
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
Rick
Site Admin


Joined: 27 Apr 2005
Posts: 21314
Location: North-west UK

PostPosted: Tue Mar 25, 2008 4:52 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

as far as I know it should be the same, although if you fit any Spit or Herald unit in, you need to swap the front engine mountings (requires the timing cover - and probably the chain & front pulley - to come off). When I had my 10, I bought a recon 948 engine for it from a Herald. I swapped the mountings over in readiness for a swap one day, that never happened. I sold the engine on a while after the Standard had gone.

RJ
_________________
Rick (OCC Admin)
Various 1920s-1960s - Austin, Morris, Commer, Dodge etc.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
TonyBrooks



Joined: 02 Jan 2008
Posts: 110
Location: Maidenhead

PostPosted: Tue Mar 25, 2008 10:00 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Interesting thread in that I am presently reading 'The Works Triumphs - 50 years in Motorsport' by Graham Robson (and recently autographed by Brian Culceth). I had no idea that the Standard 10 was ever used in Rallying and whilst I have no desire at present for another car, I have added it to my list of those under consideration at some future time! Interestingly Willy Cave who used to co drive in the works cars (eg RAC 1956) attends the HRCR monthly meetings that I also go to near High Wycombe - I shall ask him about these when I next see him. According to the text they were modified with twin SUs but no other details were given.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
Rick
Site Admin


Joined: 27 Apr 2005
Posts: 21314
Location: North-west UK

PostPosted: Tue Mar 25, 2008 10:44 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Stirling Moss had a Std 10, on wires, and that had a tweaked engine in it - from memory the article said a 1500 but unless it was a bored out 1296, it couldn't have been as Triumph didn't do one that size until the final Spits and rubber bumper Midgets of the mid/late 70s.

I've always fancied the idea of a Standard with uprated, yet still Standard/Triumph, bits under the bonnet - maybe a straight 6 Smile

R
_________________
Rick (OCC Admin)
Various 1920s-1960s - Austin, Morris, Commer, Dodge etc.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
Old-Nail



Joined: 23 Nov 2007
Posts: 854

PostPosted: Wed Mar 26, 2008 12:05 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I knew someone would mention the six...it had crossed my mind but I need a pretty easy swap with my level of mechanical (in)competence. Laughing

Tony the Standard team took part in quite a few Monte Carlo rallies during the '50's, these are from the '54 Monte.







Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
Rick
Site Admin


Joined: 27 Apr 2005
Posts: 21314
Location: North-west UK

PostPosted: Wed Mar 26, 2008 8:35 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

to be honest my 10, even in 'standard' 948cc form, was quite nippy. You may be able to perk up the performance of the existing engine with some bolt on upgrades, perhaps a twin carb setup off an early (1147cc) Spitfire for instance. For a simple upgrade, the 1296 would be a good bet, and if anything more resilient than the 1500, which was prone to problems with the crankshaft thrust washers (as were the sixes). I bet with a little ingenuity an overdrive box could be squeezed under there too.

R
_________________
Rick (OCC Admin)
Various 1920s-1960s - Austin, Morris, Commer, Dodge etc.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
Uncle Joe
Guest





PostPosted: Wed Mar 26, 2008 9:01 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

One difference between the 1500 and the earlier models was that the gearbox was different as well. So if you do the swap, its probably a good idea to get that as well.

A Standard with a six in would be a difficult swap. There were a surprising amount of changes between say a Herald and a Vitesse. But I suspect that it would be well worthwhile the extra trouble, especially if it was the 2.5 version....
Back to top
Rick
Site Admin


Joined: 27 Apr 2005
Posts: 21314
Location: North-west UK

PostPosted: Wed Mar 26, 2008 9:07 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

One other thing to remember, the engines drop from underneath on the front subframe, rather than being lifted out through the bonnet opening. Something to bear in mind if thinking about buying one to swap the engine out of, might be a bit more fiddly.

I think the disc brakes from a Spit or Herald could be fitted too.

RJ
_________________
Rick (OCC Admin)
Various 1920s-1960s - Austin, Morris, Commer, Dodge etc.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
Uncle Joe
Guest





PostPosted: Wed Mar 26, 2008 9:09 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Rick, stop giving me ideas! Laughing Laughing Laughing
Back to top
Brian M



Joined: 23 Nov 2007
Posts: 783
Location: Leigh-on-Sea, Essex

PostPosted: Wed Mar 26, 2008 10:39 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

In 1988, when my son was 14, he wanted to rebuild a classic car ready for when he could drive it three years later.

We hunted round for something small, different, and which could be modified easily.

At a number plate dealer in Bedfordshire we found a 1959 Standard Pennant, that was scruffy but fairly sound.

My son totally stripped it to a bare shell and we learned to mig weld by replacing the cills, and making our own door skins.

We acquired a Triumph Toledo, overhauled the engine, and fitted the 1300cc lump with the gearbox and fitted a Marina back axle. Front disc brakes off a Spitfire were also installed, and the front and rear were lowered. The rear axle was wider than the original so the rear doors and wings were widened very subtly.


This is as far as we got


Along the way we bought another Pennant as a spares car, that you can see in this shot behind the "Wheelbarrow Pennant".



By this time my son was 18, and was using the VW Beetle previously owned by his sister. and then he went off to University leaving the two Pennants for me to look after. The better one was usually covered up.


You are right about changing the front plate behind the timing gear and then a Toledo, Spitfire or Herald engine will go straight in, and yes, it is easier to remove the front subframe than lifting the engine through the bonnet. I had to make a rear gearbox mounting. We had it running once, but with no braking system never actually had it moving under its own steam



We had reached the point where a lot of money would be required for all those small items that are usually forgotten when estimating the restoration costs. Window and door rubbers - 200, chroming of bumpers, handles - 300, interior - 200, wheels and tyres - 300, respray - 600 and so on.

From 1999 to 2003 both cars were offered free of charge in the Standard Owners Club magazine, without one single enquiry. Finally in 2003, I put them on ebay and got 200 for the pair, after spending over 1000 on the project.

They were collected by a guy in Oxfordshire who arrived with a trailer behind his transporter and off they went.

_________________
Brian
1970 Volvo Amazon and 1978 Safari 15-4 Caravan
Classic Safari Forum: www.classicsafaris.co.uk
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message AIM Address
Old-Nail



Joined: 23 Nov 2007
Posts: 854

PostPosted: Wed Mar 26, 2008 11:09 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Thanks for that info chaps.

Brian I know what you mean about the cost of those 'little' things mounting up quickly but what a shame it wasn't finished, you had a good base there by the look of it.

It often astounds me how sometimes you can't give things away and yet somewhere someone will be desperate for that very part! Confused

Anyway, taking on the mods needed for a six cylinder swap (too many) and Ricks comments regarding the lack of durability of the Spitfire 1500 unit I think a Herald 13/60 might just fit the bill!


So that's it, I'll keep an eye out for a good solid Standard 10 to get the ball rolling, I'm still looking for another Austin Somerset too but I think I can house both now.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
Rick
Site Admin


Joined: 27 Apr 2005
Posts: 21314
Location: North-west UK

PostPosted: Wed Mar 26, 2008 11:20 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

A few pics, you've possibly already seen them before (main site) but just in case!!

First 10, bought off ebay, turned out it needed a lot more work underneath than I wanted to get in to, so back on ebay and a bloke in Germany bought it



Then the 10 I ran for a couple of years, replaced 2 or 3 years back by the Devon. Nice little car, unusual in that it had Standrive transmission



Finally, this Standard 8, bought cheaply. Super sound body, interior iffy, so would have been a perfick candidate for some subtle, in-period, modifications. In fact I got the original lump running and it ran sweetly. When the 10 went, I advertised this too and it went to a new home. Last seen parked on a farm 20 miles from here, no cover on it and deteriorating Sad



I wouldn't mind another some day, I did consider one quite recently but it needed quite a bit of re-assembly so probably would never have got done.

RJ
_________________
Rick (OCC Admin)
Various 1920s-1960s - Austin, Morris, Commer, Dodge etc.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
Rick
Site Admin


Joined: 27 Apr 2005
Posts: 21314
Location: North-west UK

PostPosted: Wed Mar 26, 2008 11:34 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

ON, if you were feeling really adventurous, you could always go:



or a bit of



Smile

RJ
_________________
Rick (OCC Admin)
Various 1920s-1960s - Austin, Morris, Commer, Dodge etc.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
Old-Nail



Joined: 23 Nov 2007
Posts: 854

PostPosted: Wed Mar 26, 2008 1:06 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I'd like a nice clean solid example, (hopefully not black) that can withstand daily use in all weathers.

I accept that classics need a bit more TLC than a modern if you use them this way but to me that's part of the fun (except the 21 grease nipples on the steering Rolling Eyes )

The hunt is on - and I may have found something already, 40% overpriced (dealer) but it may well fit the bill. If I've time I'll do the 100 mile round trip to view it this afternoon but I may have to make it tomorrow.

It's at times like this when one of two things usually happens:

1. I leave it 'till tomorrow and the dealer tells me that despite having the car on sale for ages someone happened to call in yesterday and the car sold... or...I buy it and the week after a pristine Austin Somerset comes up for sale and I could have afforded it 'if only I hadn't bought the Standard'! Laughing
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
pigtin



Joined: 23 Nov 2007
Posts: 1882
Location: Herne Bay

PostPosted: Wed Mar 26, 2008 5:10 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Got rid of this one on ebay a couple of years ago. bought it from sheer nostalgia having passed my test in one during the 50s.
Previous owner gave me receipts for 5K spent on it but had not touched the engine (a 998cc and perfect) and I also had some rot in the os front wing.
Not a lot of interest shown and it went for around 500 eventually.

http://i158.photobucket.com/albums/t103/donthebat/Standard8now10-1.jpg
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
Display posts from previous:   
Post new topic   Reply to topic    Classic cars forum & vehicle restoration. Forum Index -> Mechanical Restoration All times are GMT + 1 Hour
Goto page 1, 2  Next
Page 1 of 2

 
Jump to:  
You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot vote in polls in this forum
Forum T&C


php BB powered © php BB Grp.