Classic cars forum & vehicle restoration.

[pigtin]

I have to get my 10/4 tested before the end of the month, it'll be interesting to see how we fare.
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Due to the onset of my mid eighties I'm no longer sprightly and rarely seen in my Austin special. I have written a book though. https://amzn.eu/d/7rwRRqL

[euronerd]

My own solution to this was to leave the existing dipping arrangement as it was, and in the other headlamp use a double filament bulb (No 171 from memory) with a simple bit of wiring to the dipswitch. You might need a bulbholder too, to convert from SCC to SBC, depending on the original.

Geoff.

[peter scott]

The problem with trying to fit double filament bulbs to a reflector that was only designed for one point of focus is that you always end up with one or other of the filaments being wildly wrong.

Despite murmurings of unreliabilty with the dual solenoid approach it is by far the easiest solution and is completely reliable if correctly set up.

Peter
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http://www.nostalgiatech.co.uk
1939 SS Jaguar 2 1/2 litre saloon

[ukdave2002]

I did put a post on this subject a year or so back as I have the same challenge with my 1939 Morris 8, and took it up with VOSA and had some quite lengthy correspondence with them.
The MOT law is as stated by someone else in this thread it’s quite clear that post Jan 1931 you must have 2 dip and main beam lamps. Strictly speaking there is no way round it, day light only is a complete non starter, however my local tester who is fully aware of the regulations will pass the car, and if he was ever challenged will argue that the testers manual states that the car should be tested to a level that reflects the specifications and standards when it was built, so there is a degree of ambiguity which he world argue is confusing.

Re the reflectors and fitting dual filament bulbs , if its anything like the Morris 8 SE all the export models had dual filament bulbs so dual filliment reflectors are available. What car do you have I have a box full of reflectors and solenoids for Morris 8’s and the larger ones for the 10’s if you need one.

Cheers Dave

[Penman]

Hi
Another problem with fitting twin element bulbs is that the lens also has beam direction mouldings.

Whereas fitting a solenoid dipping reflector to the other lamp would still give a correctly focused light.

[Timstopp]

wow - what a lot of advice, thanks it's really helping.
UKdave - it's a 1934 wolseley nine, which I think has the same headlights as a Morris 8 (Lucas 8 inch lb140) so if you had a spare dipping reflector mechanism.....

Many Thanks
tim
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North Essex,UK - Morris 8 tourer 1936 - Jaguar x350

[Phil - Nottingham]

All Lucas headlights prior to the "pre-focus" postwar 7" were, and had to be, manually focussed by moving the bulbholder in or out of the reflector until the best spot pattern was acheived. Just a simple ring type clamp held the bulb holder in place. New bulbs varied in in position and there were no locating pegs orcutouts

Most headlamp glasses then had very primitive fluting to prevent glare and was not really directional as to side to side - some had the cats-eye flutes other nothing, or just frosting or with a flat top or bottom flutes often combined with an internal centre bulb sheild.

These worked resaonbly well with low wattage bulbs standard then of 36/36 but not so good with higher wattage and halogen bulbs as too much light scatter arises
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Rover P2
Rover P4
Rover P5 & P5B
Land Rover S2 & S3
Morris Mini Traveller Mk2

[Jim Walker]

Phil - Nottingham wrote:-

"Rover never trusted the unreliable solenoid reflector tilt device even then".

I have to challenge that.

My 1948 Rover 60 P3 had factory fitted twin solenoid dipped headlamps even before regulations required them. I replaced these with 7" BPF conversions for better lights.

The 1951 Austin Metropolitan FL1 Hire Car I was driving at the time had single dip solenoid headlamps and when twin dip regulations came in I fitted the units from my Rover, which I had been reluctant to throw away. I still have the Hire Car which still has the twin solenoid dip system. My original wiring mods. are still in place and when I notice it I remember that at the time I was extremely proud that I had done the job unaided! I wish all the wiring jobs I have tackled since then were as simple! Incidentally, the "unreliable" twin dip solenoid system still works perfectly 60 years on without any maintainance!

Jim.

[Phil - Nottingham]

Yours must be the exception then Rover dropped the single solenoid system in 1938 for the 1939 models - the twin dip must have been a customer spec order not standard even the 1950 Cyclops P4 was designed for the UK dip & pass, the central spot light being blanked out for US exports. Per the Rover P3 60/75 wiring diagrams only LHD exports had double dip and not solenoid operated either

Its well known that Rover would fit anything at customer request - was yours an export model as the 1948 Standard Vanguards also had double dip (bulbed) headlights for export but single in UK and as most production went abroad where the strange Uk system was illegal many found their way back

The fact that yours works still must also be unusual - contempory car reports do not back this up though I suppose it depends on how and where its used - expensive too in manufacture.

The Lucas BPF conversions look terrible in the larger pre-war lamps although they are more efficient
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Rover P2
Rover P4
Rover P5 & P5B
Land Rover S2 & S3
Morris Mini Traveller Mk2

[Jim Walker]

Phil, I do remember being told the Rover was an export model, though it was right hand drive and was never exported. However I do not think the headlamps were special order.
We operated about 20 cars, mostly Austins, ALL with solenoid dipping at that time. I remember NO dipping problems and I am old enough to remember personally. Are you? Or are you quoting what you have been told?

Jim.

[Phil - Nottingham]

No I am not that old but I do know a lot about pre-war and post war Rovers and post war ones did not have them as standard fit. As to their reliability I have junked one or two of these in the past and know other who have too. They need regular manitentance and the cars that had them did not get it in the 60/70's as most were regarded a sold bangers.

As yours is and export model this is why it had them but most cars then went straight over to the much cheaper and reliable double filament bulbs, Rover used them even pre-war
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Rover P2
Rover P4
Rover P5 & P5B
Land Rover S2 & S3
Morris Mini Traveller Mk2

[Jim Walker]

So you only came across them when they were already decades old Phil? And they were never expected to be in use decades on.

Joseph Lucas's electrical equipment in general comes in for a lot of hammer from car and bike restorers. Mostly, I think, because the accusers never met the components when they were still in their expected service life. Before and long after the war, almost all British vehicles relied on Lucas electrical parts, which as far as I am concerned, gave sterling performance. But then we all have our own opinion, though mine is based on about 60 years of personal experience. Beginning when most cars were pre-war because post war cars were not readily available until well into the sixties.

I bought the 1948 Rover about 1959 and paid only £150 less than I paid to obtain a brand new Mini about 18 months later (after a six month wait after ordering it).

Jim.

[peter scott]

Phil, my experience with the solenoids is happier than your's. I will admit that adjustment is necessarily trial and error given that you can't adjust with the lamp assembly in place. If they aren't adjusted correctly they either don't
move the reflector or they chatter but once they are set up I can't think what would cause them to go wrong unaided.

What sort of problems did you experience?

Peter
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http://www.nostalgiatech.co.uk
1939 SS Jaguar 2 1/2 litre saloon

[Phil - Nottingham]

It no longer matters they are long gone but partila or toatl seizure and tempermental action (vibrating/sahking light!) they were an unnessary complication when a more reliable, Nil attention and cheaper alternative was available even Rolls Royce dispensed with them
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Rover P2
Rover P4
Rover P5 & P5B
Land Rover S2 & S3
Morris Mini Traveller Mk2