Classic cars forum & vehicle restoration.

[buzzy bee]

Hi

I have a broken 306 in the driveway, it has been getting harder and harder to start recently, lots of winding over, thought it could be the glow plugs, so changed them, worked for a while, but it is now awkward again, thought it could be air locked so bled it all. Now there is nothing, not one zip.

I have tried and tried, and have run out of light. Also am not meant to do anything today due to being in hospital today.

I have fuel in the filter, but none squirting out of the injectors, there is a little coming out of the injector pump, when turned over on the key but not alot, and not under much pressure.

Hoping it isn't the injection pump as got a quote today, £1100+ VAT, had one on a tractor overhauled the other day and it was aprox £500. I am not paying that on it, it will be grabbed with a buck rake or tele handler and scrapped in that case, and a new car bought.

Anyone have any ideas?

Cheers

Dave

[Brian M]

[peter scott]

Hi Dave,

I've had something similar with my Mondeo. In the past I got the impression that glow plugs either worked or they didn't and the ones that didn't were open circuit and usually had a hole burnt into the tip.

When my engine started showing the signs of glow plug failure (i.e. it would start fine if you just keep running the starter motor continuously until the compressions built up enough heat) I decided to save money and buy a supposedly good set second hand on eBay. They all measured nice low resistances but didn't actually work any better than the old ones. I then bought new ones. They did work better although they still don't operate as rapidly as the originals so I've just resigned myself to waiting for the light to go out and then waiting a further ~10 seconds until the glow plug relay goes click. It then starts.

Peter

p.s. If it runs fine once you get it going then I don't think your injector pump is at fault.

I did have to replace my pump because the input shaft bearing was leaking but found one on eBay for £50 so do look there if the car ain't running right after it's started.
_________________
https://www.nostalgiatech.co.uk
1939 SS Jaguar 2 1/2 litre saloon

[buzzy bee]

Hi

Cheers for the replies.

A useable classic would have to be a 2a landrover, but not at the moment.

Glow plugs, I don't mind waiting for them, and was wondering if I could put an extra heat switch on it, like on a forklift at work, for cold weather starting. Also does Advancing your pump (or is it retarding) slightly help cold starting, it should do in theory.

It runs ok, with the ocasional misfire, once it warms up, untill it is warm, 5 or ten mins it is like a bag of nails! That could still be the lift pump.

Does anyone know where the lift pump is, I was looking in the dark this evening, but couldn't see it under the bonet, is it one that lives in the tank?

Cheers

Dave

[Jim Walker]

I don't think you will find a lift pump. It is integral with the injector pump, which is why the filter has a primer on it.

Have you tried a wire direct to the heater plugs (via a switch) to eliminate the control unit (often a blue box)? These units do not last forever.

Compression pressure is more vital than a petrol engine - have you checked them?

The flow of fuel coming out of the pump will never be copious. When the engine is running the amount of fuel injected each time is about the size of a pin-head.
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Quote from my Late Dad :- "You only need a woman and a motor car and you have all the troubles you are ever likely to want". THAT was pre-computers!

[buzzy bee]

Cheers

I have been told that the pump is in the injection pump and also that there is a transfer pump in the tank?

Anyway, plan is to take it to my shed, so I can fiddle in the dry with it, and buy a more modern new van. Spend a bit more money on it in the hope it will be a little less of an anoying car, one thing after another, it is not what I need in an everyday car.

Going to look in the morning.

Any ideas on vans?

I am halfway between the Berlingo sized van and then the Vivario/traffic you know about 5 makes all do the same van. I used to drive the vivario version and they were great.

Any oppinions?

Cheers

Dave

[Jim Walker]

I've never owned a 306, but I have had 405s and 406s. As far as I am aware they had no 'booster' pump in the tank. But then they only did about one and a half million miles between them on taxi work. Perhaps I was lucky and none failed!
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Quote from my Late Dad :- "You only need a woman and a motor car and you have all the troubles you are ever likely to want". THAT was pre-computers!

[bob2]

Throw that pug away and re commission the mini, inject with a LOT of waxoil and use as instructed

Sorry but i really hate modern french cars (with a passion) !!

If you buy a more modern car dont buy french but go for something japanese like toyota, much more reliable!!
I have a hyundai as everyday car (last 6/7 years) and its been a very reliable thing, nothing to set the world alight but for everyday transport all I look at is reliabilty and a little comfort!!
Oh btw its about12/13 years old and has 132,000kms.

[Jim Walker]

I had better not mention the last Peugeot 405 I used as a Taxi. Oh, why not? It 'double shifted' for most of its life with me and I only got rid of it beacause it was looking tatty inside.

It had 278.000 miles on the clock. Started immediately in any weather. Ran like it was new. And used no oil. The head had never been removed and apart from a few ball joints and a replacement rear axle beam once it never had more than normal service items. Oh, it had a new clutch at 208,000 miles.

Incidentally, because it ran up mileage very quickly (one exceptional year nearly totalled 100.000 miles) and did few cold starts, the oil change period was extended by 50%. There must be lessons somewhere in that!
_________________
Quote from my Late Dad :- "You only need a woman and a motor car and you have all the troubles you are ever likely to want". THAT was pre-computers!

[buzzy bee]

[buzzy bee]

Hi

Just replaced the glow plugs again! Two sets in two months and it has worked, it runs, it has an odd misfire, but not too bad. The old ones were really wet, is that just going to be due to the amount of diesel that has been injected in the last few days trying to start it?

I have a theory that there is too much fuel, as it does kick out unburnt fuel when you put your foot down. It seems under powered, and the turbo wistles like mad, I thought I had a split pipe. Any way I was thinking the pump will be over fueling if my turbo is not putting enough pressure out? It will have the same effect as turning the pump right up, would it not?

Should I try a different turbo from a breakers and see if it stops overfuleing, as that is clearly not working to me, I supose I could test the pressure. If not I would have to turn the pump down a bit.

I was also thinking if I clean these plugs up, the old ones I mean, and keep them handy, if it happens again, can I swap them for these dry ones??

Cheers and any ideas on my thorys are welcomed!

Cheers

Dave

[peter scott]

Hi Dave,

Is there an electrical sensor on the top of the pump that measures throttle opening? If so try slackening off the mounting screws and adjust the angle of the sensor to the point where the exhaust just doesn't show black smoke.

Peter
_________________
https://www.nostalgiatech.co.uk
1939 SS Jaguar 2 1/2 litre saloon

[47p2]

It might also be worth sticking some Forte injector cleaner in the fuel tank
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ROVER
One of Britain's Fine Cars

[Jim Walker]

You say it whistles. Are you sure the pipe from the turbo is not split? Or the joint seals leaking? I never understood why I lost power in my 406 when the pipe from the filter TO the turbo came adrift, but it did. perhaps that is worth checking too.

Has anyone else ever found 'wet' heater plugs. I haven't even when they are faulty. Maybe cranking the engine for a long time if they are not working and the engine has not started will do it as you suggest. It still sounds to me as if you have not enough compression pressure.

Do you know the history of the vehicle? Missed oil changes or wrong oil often causes piston rings to carbon up in their grooves on diesels so that they cannot expand to contact the cylinder walls properly.
_________________
Quote from my Late Dad :- "You only need a woman and a motor car and you have all the troubles you are ever likely to want". THAT was pre-computers!

[bob2]