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Need some urgent advice (Round headed bolt)
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bob2



Joined: 06 Dec 2007
Posts: 1722
Location: Malta

PostPosted: Fri Jan 02, 2009 11:02 am    Post subject: Need some urgent advice (Round headed bolt) Reply with quote

At the moment I am dismantling stuff from the engine on my hunter and rebuilding/refurbishing them.
I have encountered a problem though, First I have sheared off 2 bolts whilst getting off the thermostat housing. They are really stuck in the spacer ther is between the block and the housing so at least not in the cylinder head!!
I then wanted to take out this spacer and started to loose the bolts but the lower one had its head almost rounded (and also looks to be seized solid)!!
I do not want to break this one too since its in the block and the enigine is staying in situ!!
What is best to do??

I was thinking of filing it by hand back into shape but its quite a laborius and time consuming thing!!
I have already drenched the 3 b******s in WD40 and was thinking of heating but this housing is in bronze not metal, would heat from a blow lamp damage it???
And if so do you think a heat gun would be enough to heat the bolt ?

If I do get this housing spacer out I then need to find a way of taking the other 2 offending and decapitated bolts out. I was thinking of welding a nut to these two and after drenching in waxoil overnight try to free them using a spanner.

Any suggestions please!!!
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buzzy bee



Joined: 23 Nov 2007
Posts: 3397
Location: South Cheshire

PostPosted: Fri Jan 02, 2009 11:11 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Hi

I am only giving you what I would do, so don't want to be blamed for any more problems! I have enough of those myself! He He

The rounded bolt, can you not knock a smaller socket on, the tighter the better without splitting the socket, if not try your filing thing, with a ring spanner on, again smaller in you can knock one on, and if needed, and depending if it is big enough, add a slot into the top of the head for a flat blade screwdriver, do some added torque.

As being stuck, try heat if you like, but I have no idea about melting without seeing it, if you do, try coolest working up, and judge it as you go, don't be scared to stop! You will be amazed what even the smallest heat will do!

The ones with the heads to shear off, I would drill the centre to the relevant easy out, stud removers if you have any, if not try your nut idea if you can, if not I would drill the centre as large as possible, then cave the thread in, depending on if it is big enough again. You may have to re drill and tap or thread insert after though.

I would definateley try soaking in penetration fluid, or just a bucket of Diesel, I have left things soaking for weeks.

Cheers

Dave
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Rick
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Joined: 27 Apr 2005
Posts: 21180
Location: North-west UK

PostPosted: Fri Jan 02, 2009 11:20 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Soak, gentle heat, soak, gentle heat sounds like the best option, although without seeing the exact layout (any chance of a photo?) it is hard to be precise! can you get a stud extractor in at all?

R
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Greeney in France



Joined: 06 Mar 2008
Posts: 1173
Location: Limousin area of France

PostPosted: Fri Jan 02, 2009 11:55 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I have some of these
They are fantastic never failed me yet, they have a reverse twist and tighten themselves down as you try and undo.
As the other posts say try a little heat too as the aluminium casing has probably corroded around the steel bolt

Sorry forgot to say they are IRWIN bolt grip sockets easily obtainable from ebay tool shops
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Rick
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PostPosted: Fri Jan 02, 2009 12:02 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

They do look handy. I found some interesting user-comments about these on Amazon:

http://www.amazon.co.uk/review/product/B0000CCXVZ/ref=cm_cr_dp_all_helpful?_encoding=UTF8&coliid=&showViewpoints=1&colid=&sortBy=bySubmissionDateDescending

RJ
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Jim.Walker



Joined: 27 Dec 2008
Posts: 1233
Location: Chesterfield

PostPosted: Fri Jan 02, 2009 1:54 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I have a useful set of tube cutters, thin enough to clear out the crud between a stud or bolt (if the head has sheared off) and its hole and long enough to clean out around cylinder head studs when necessary. They are in a plastic wallet, but unfortunately are unnamed. They have got me out of many a jam. Whether these are still available, I am not sure, but they are well worth adding to your toolbox if you spot any.
I now intend backing these up with the Irwin thingybobs. Which I have never met before.
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wrinx



Joined: 22 Jun 2008
Posts: 142
Location: Derbyshire

PostPosted: Fri Jan 02, 2009 2:25 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Greeney in France wrote:
I have some of these
They are fantastic never failed me yet, they have a reverse twist and tighten themselves down as you try and undo.
As the other posts say try a little heat too as the aluminium casing has probably corroded around the steel bolt

Sorry forgot to say they are IRWIN bolt grip sockets easily obtainable from ebay tool shops


Agreed, I've got a full set of Irwins, not cheap though...only used them once but there was no way the bolts was coming out without them.

Worth every penny imho.

Also got a set of stud extractors which are surprisingly effective and may also help with the OP problem.

Btw, gentle heat on a bronze/brass nut should be fine, if it glows red you've gone too far Wink

wrinx
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bob2



Joined: 06 Dec 2007
Posts: 1722
Location: Malta

PostPosted: Fri Jan 02, 2009 2:44 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

hi thanks to everyone for the great ideas!!
will try searching on ebay for them, definately handy stuff!!

Wrinx the bronze/brass thingy are not the nuts/bolts but the thermostat housing and spacer !!
How do the stud extractors you mentioned look like??
I have heard of them infact but never bought any!!
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buzzy bee



Joined: 23 Nov 2007
Posts: 3397
Location: South Cheshire

PostPosted: Fri Jan 02, 2009 4:00 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Hi

The extractors I use, are a course left and thread on a fairly coarse taper, they pull in down as you turn anti clockwise, when they get to the point they can't get any further down the hole you drill in the stud/bolt they twist slightly and then you hear a pop, you may think it has just sheared off, but it has always undone the stud for me!

Cheers

Dave
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bob2



Joined: 06 Dec 2007
Posts: 1722
Location: Malta

PostPosted: Fri Jan 02, 2009 4:15 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

you will have to re thread then which is not a problem as I have various sizes of taps and also need some dices cause to take out the servo from underneath the dash I had to punch the studs with a hammer and I put back the nuts and didnt fully engage one of them resulting in a stripped thread!!

I think my father used to have some dices so I need to find them in the garage!!

As Rick said in some other post sometimes its better to find a better (already restored) example!!!
Sometimes I think I am really moving forward in the resto only to get stuck in something stupid like this.
Should have paid more attention and less brute force!!! Sad
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Greeney in France



Joined: 06 Mar 2008
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Location: Limousin area of France

PostPosted: Fri Jan 02, 2009 4:45 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I was quite surprised at the 10mm comments on Amazon I have managed to remove a dozen ranging from 10mm-17mm although at time I have tapped them in place with a hammer
Rolling Eyes
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Greeney in France



Joined: 06 Mar 2008
Posts: 1173
Location: Limousin area of France

PostPosted: Fri Jan 02, 2009 4:45 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I was quite surprised at the 10mm comments on Amazon I have managed to remove a dozen ranging from 10mm-17mm although at time I have tapped them in place with a hammer
Rolling Eyes I did buy both sets too
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Phil - Nottingham



Joined: 01 Jan 2008
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Location: Nottingham

PostPosted: Fri Jan 02, 2009 6:17 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

If there is one thing WD40 is not good at, it is as a penetrating oil. Plus-gas is the best I have found but even Coca-Cola is better than WD40.

This may not be any good in you case now though? Drilling small holes (1 mm ╪)down the side to allow more fluid into may work as well

If you can heat up the centre of the the stud with a small oxy-acetleline flame this will usually shift it without damaging the alloy casting - if you are not bother about that nwo then it will easily melt it.

Welding a nut on the top with a Mig may also have the same effect
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bob2



Joined: 06 Dec 2007
Posts: 1722
Location: Malta

PostPosted: Wed Jan 07, 2009 11:14 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Hi guys

Didnt do anything yet as I had a number of unfortunate events, Saturday was spent with my mum at A & E cause she fell and broke her wrist and sunday whilst removing the christmas decorations and putting them away for next year ended with acute back pain, and stayed indoors for 2 days because of it!!
Will definitale try to do it next weekend though with some help from my cousin maybe!!
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PAUL BEAUMONT



Joined: 27 Nov 2007
Posts: 1280
Location: Barnsley S. Yorks

PostPosted: Wed Jan 07, 2009 3:15 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Lots of good advice here, and my thoughts are probably a bit late. I am sure I have seen Greeney recommend before, that if a bolt is not for playing, a slight attempt at tightening it first often persuades it to play. I also find that a good sharp tap on the bolt head, sometimes with a centre punch or similar, will break the thread lock.
Finally do not be scared about drilling it out, but start with a small drill, as you will not hit the centre true. Once you have a hole use that as a pilot to increase the drill size until you just touch the female thread, (or until you can use one of Buzzy's thread extractors, but beware these are very hard and if you snap one off you will never drill it out) once you have the offending stub sufficiently week you will normally be ably to pry the remainder away from the female thread to a point where it puts its hands up and say "I give in" Smile
If you have to retap to clean the threads up use lots of lubricant just to keep the steel swarf from causing damage. Diesel or paraffin is good for non ferrous parts when tapping.
Good luck with the stud extraction, your Mum and your back!
PAUL
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