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1933 Austin 12/6
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Jonv8



Joined: 28 Jan 2009
Posts: 66

PostPosted: Wed Jan 28, 2009 10:31 pm    Post subject: 1933 Austin 12/6 Reply with quote

Hello all,nice to join you ! Just wondering if anyone on here is familiar with the 6 cyl sidevalve engines used by Austin in the 1930's.
The car in question lives in Western Australia where it was sent,(As far as I know.)as a CKD kit - then built up with a locally made body.
My brother has restored the car over a period of 14yrs to a very high standard - I drove it on one of its first test drives two years ago.Since then it has been carefully run in and used on local Austin club runs/meets etc.A few teething problems were quickly sorted out and it was running well.
My brother kindly invited me to drive his car for the "Austins over Australia" rally at Easter this year.But there is a problem,the engine is forcing small amounts of oil into the coolant.We cannot get to the bottom of this,the engine has an oil pump sitting in the sump with a copper pipe manifold feeding the main bearing caps - which feed the rod ends via the crank drillings.The cam is splash lubed and there is no oilway or feed to the head as its sidevalve.There is no water pump and the coolant only gets down near the base of the liners.Such a simple engine,yet no obvious reason how oil gets in the coolant.There is no coolant in the oil,the engine has never been hot,and has good oil pressure.
Sorry to dribble on,thought I'd give some useful background on the fault.
Cant wait to get out there at Easter !
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Penman



Joined: 23 Nov 2007
Posts: 4850
Location: Swindon, Wilts.

PostPosted: Wed Jan 28, 2009 11:11 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Hi
My first thought is there must be some crankcase pressure to force it in to the water, the 4cylinders had a breather pipe venting pressure to the atmosphere.
Could that be blocked, assuming there is one?
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Scotty



Joined: 23 Nov 2007
Posts: 883

PostPosted: Thu Jan 29, 2009 7:28 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Welcome Jonv8. Wink

With regard to your problem, I'm loath to suggest this as to me this is a "worst case" scenario and I would strongly recommend you wait for other suggestions from the members here who are much more knowledgeable than I - however, could it be a cracked cylinder liner?

Scotty.
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peter scott



Joined: 18 Dec 2007
Posts: 7211
Location: Edinburgh

PostPosted: Thu Jan 29, 2009 10:11 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Hi Jon,

Welcome to the forum. I would suspect cylinder head gasket failure. Although you may not be seeing water in your oil it is possible for the compression pressures to force oil into the coolant.

Peter
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1939 SS Jaguar 2 1/2 litre saloon
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Keith D



Joined: 16 Oct 2008
Posts: 1164
Location: Upper Swan, Western Australia

PostPosted: Thu Jan 29, 2009 3:01 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Welcome to the forum Jon. I presume you are a sand groper as well??

I agree with Peter, sounds like the head gasket blowing. Start the motor cold without the radiator cap on and see if the water is bubbling and churning inside the radiator. (Assuming there is a thermostat fitted)

I also intend taking part in AOA at Easter in Perth.

Keith D
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Jonv8



Joined: 28 Jan 2009
Posts: 66

PostPosted: Thu Jan 29, 2009 8:48 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Thank you for your time and replies,I spend a considerable amount of time helping on Land Rover forums so its a change for me to be asking questions.
It it difficult to be absolutely sure about the Austin as I've only had one conversation with my brother about the problem.I'm not convinced about the head gasket theory as he said there is no indication of pressurization of the cooling system,bubbles etc.Plus there are no oil galleries up to the head passing through the gasket - and for oil to be present in the coolant after passing past the rings/head gasket there would be blue smoke/fouled plugs etc.None of which are present.
The breather idea is more likely,we did not discuss this on the phone,I'll try to call him tomorrow to get an idea of the layout.
I just hope its not a cracked block,which at the back of my mind is the most likely cause......
Keith,it will be good to catch up on the AOA at Easter,very much looking forward to it.
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Jonv8



Joined: 28 Jan 2009
Posts: 66

PostPosted: Sat Jan 31, 2009 6:05 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Had another chat about the car,the breather is just a small hole in the top of the oil filler tube and is not blocked.All the plugs are the same colour and are not oil - fouled.The car never gets hot,even in WA summer temps.
We are now thinking that because it happens so slowly,and only when the car is running that the oil pressure must be forcing it up one of the main bearing studs via the threads.Then up a very small crack into the bottom of the coolant jacket.
I think the best course of action is to take out the studs one by one and seal the threads with sealant.
Thank you for the replies,I'll update when there is more news - and hopefully post up some pictures of the AOA rally when I get back.
Just spent a very frustrating cople of hours sorting out an intermittent HT fault on my Land Rover IIA,am I alone in thinking that alot of new ignition parts for old cars are poorly made ?
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Mog



Joined: 30 Dec 2007
Posts: 663
Location: Sydney

PostPosted: Wed Feb 04, 2009 5:36 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I can tell you the Lucas AVC regulators, on series 2 and 2 A, do not like the Australian dust, bull dust. It stuffs the points up, as they are not fully sealed.So , if you have a charging problem, check the points in the regulator.
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Jonv8



Joined: 28 Jan 2009
Posts: 66

PostPosted: Wed Feb 04, 2009 6:26 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Mog wrote:
I can tell you the Lucas AVC regulators, on series 2 and 2 A, do not like the Australian dust, bull dust. It stuffs the points up, as they are not fully sealed.So , if you have a charging problem, check the points in the regulator.

Thanks Mog,I should have explained better,I live in the UK - my brother is the lucky one living in OZ. My series IIA has a Lucas 17ACR alternator - the dynamo was binned along time ago when it did alot of static winching work at idle speeds.
Cheers Jon.
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Nic Jarman



Joined: 05 Oct 2008
Posts: 1031
Location: Stoke by Clare, Suffolk

PostPosted: Wed Feb 04, 2009 11:21 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote


OK where is the oil coming from? It is creeping up the studs that hold the head on. I suspect something similar is happening with bros Austin. Side valve engines are all fairly alike. If yours is finding it's way into the water there may be a problem with the head gasket. I think it would be worth lifting the head, sealing the studs and inspecting the surfaces etc. Good luck. Let us know how you get on. We love photos.
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Jonv8



Joined: 28 Jan 2009
Posts: 66

PostPosted: Sun Feb 08, 2009 8:56 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Thanks for that,just shows what can happen when castings get old.I dont have any still photos of my brothers car,only video.I've spoken to him and explained your photo,he is open to all thoughts and said he will order a new head gasket - these come from New Zealand so may take a while.He has promised to make sure its running OK for the rally starting April 10th, as I'm just about to book my airline tickets,cheers Jon.
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pigtin



Joined: 23 Nov 2007
Posts: 1879
Location: Herne Bay

PostPosted: Sun Feb 08, 2009 11:20 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Hi the oil seeps up through the studs on my Austin 10/4 and does the same on my mates 10/4 as well. It's been doing it for last twenty odd years in my case. My mate told me it's something to do with the type of oil used.
It can only come from the cylinder lubricant as the studs should not be connected to any oil way. Sometimes it even blows past the plug threads.
It's never caused us a problem and there is always evidence of a tiny amount of oil getting into the coolant. We ignore it.
I am assuming the six cylinder engine to be similar to the ten, but with a couple of extra pots.
Using that blue gasket seal (I forget its name) may well cure it and reduce the chances of the gasket blowing. Modern pattern gaskets are not as good as the originals and it may well be a contributing factor.

ps. You'll notice it only happens on the studs between two combustion chambers.

Don.
_________________
Due to the onset of my mid eighties I'm no longer sprightly and rarely seen in my Austin special. I have written a book though. https://amzn.eu/d/7rwRRqL
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Mog



Joined: 30 Dec 2007
Posts: 663
Location: Sydney

PostPosted: Mon Feb 09, 2009 8:04 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Hi Jonv8 I have been in Aussie for 42 years. How are you coping with the cold and snow ??? My older brother is also called Jon and lives in Aussie. My mother lives not far away and still drives in Sydney at the age of 90. I am getting away from the subject, so I better shut up.
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pigtin



Joined: 23 Nov 2007
Posts: 1879
Location: Herne Bay

PostPosted: Mon Feb 09, 2009 11:31 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Just been out and taken some pictures. The engine has seepage through the studs and plugs that is pretty typical of the last 24 years and 30 odd thousand miles.




_________________
Due to the onset of my mid eighties I'm no longer sprightly and rarely seen in my Austin special. I have written a book though. https://amzn.eu/d/7rwRRqL
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Jonv8



Joined: 28 Jan 2009
Posts: 66

PostPosted: Tue Feb 10, 2009 10:08 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Well it looks like it needs to come apart,as long as he has it sorted for the AOA rally I'll be happy.(Were it not for the rally I'd be out there now for the best of the summer.)Mog, I wish I'd emigrated 15yrs ago,the cold and damp get harder to cope with each year - and I'm only 43 !
Never mind,after two rubbish summers and this winter I reckon the UK is due a top summer with sunshine from June to October.........
Thanks for the help,photos and suggestions.
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