Classic cars forum & vehicle restoration.
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roverdriver
Joined: 18 Oct 2008 Posts: 1210 Location: 100 miles from Melbourne, Victoria, Australia
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Posted: Mon Jun 29, 2009 11:35 am Post subject: Dodgy Rotor |
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One of our cars is a 1982 Aussie spec. Rover SE. That is a SD1 with fuel injection.
Recently I had a problem with the total failure of the distributor rotor. I have no idea how long the rotor has been in my car, it was there when I bought the vehicle about nine years ago.
My local motor parts dealer found that a Bosch GL 195C was what I needed, so I bough one and fitted it. Engine ran perfectly again.
Yesterday on my regular monthly trip to Melbourne (200 mile round trip) the engine started to miss fire. Firstly it would not idle, then as I progressed, the problem became worse, the engine would cut out for a second or so, then fire up again with a nice loud explosion from the exhaust.
We struggled on and got home. This morning I swapped the 400-mile-old rotor for a known good second hand one and once again perfect running.
My parts supplier is now endeavouring to obtain another brand of rotor for me. In a week, my wife and I are off on a jaunt of about 2,500 miles in the SE and I would like to have a good spare with me.
Has anyone else had problems with Mr (or is it Herr) Bosch's products? This one was packaged in Australia, but the card states 'Made in United Kingdom'. It could be that I have been unlucky and bought the only dodgy one of the batch, but I think a different brand might bring peace of mind. _________________ Dane- roverdriver but not a Viking. |
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ukdave2002
Joined: 23 Nov 2007 Posts: 4127 Location: South Cheshire
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Posted: Mon Jun 29, 2009 1:58 pm Post subject: |
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Hi
Its a common problem with Lucas rotor arms as well although they usually last more than 400 miles!!, the symptoms I have experienced (on my side valve Morris) were;
when the engine was cold no problems, as the engine heats up you begin to get misfires, if you try and start it hot; no chance!!
Took me ages to find the fault, I was convinced the problem was fuel related as it occurred when I first started using unleaded and it had all the symptoms of fuel vaporisation. I only found it after acquiring a Crypton analyser, and then the problem showed up straight away! Talking to a mechanic some time later it was apparently a very common problem, reinforcing the fact that the distributor cap and rotor arms are service items .
I don’t know what ignition system your Rover has ? but the CD systems were starting to get popular about that time, with the higher voltages things like plug leads, dizzy cap and rotor arms have to be in tip top condition otherwise the slightest insulation breakdown will cause a misfire, could it be that the rotor arm although looking physically the same was not the correct one? Or maybe you wee just unlucky !
Cheers Dave |
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Nic Jarman
Joined: 05 Oct 2008 Posts: 1031 Location: Stoke by Clare, Suffolk
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Posted: Mon Jun 29, 2009 3:22 pm Post subject: |
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For Lucas rotor arms try these people,
www.theelectricalpartscompanyltd.com
They claim they have the original Lucas paterns. _________________ 1936 Morris 8 Series 1
1973 MGB roadster
1977 MG Midget 1500
Dax Rush |
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roverdriver
Joined: 18 Oct 2008 Posts: 1210 Location: 100 miles from Melbourne, Victoria, Australia
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Posted: Tue Jun 30, 2009 11:26 am Post subject: |
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Thanks for the comments and suggestion. With what my supplier can find, plus my known good second hand one, and a set of crossed fingers, I hope the long jaunt will work out. It is obviously something that I need to find a proper cure for, so will contact the Link you gave me, Nic, unless I can find some NOS ones, as suggested on another forum. _________________ Dane- roverdriver but not a Viking. |
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Jim.Walker
Joined: 27 Dec 2008 Posts: 1229 Location: Chesterfield
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Posted: Sun Jul 05, 2009 5:59 pm Post subject: |
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This thread set me musing.
In over 50 years of motoring both at work and in my own vehicles on which I did most of the maintenance I have never had a rotor arm fail. Most of the vehicles had Lucas ignition.
Now I have a problem with very dry hands and usually have great difficulty with plastic bags and cellophane paper because I cannot let go of the things (static).
Could it be that sweaty or oily hands leave deposits on rotor arms which induce them to track? Just a thought.
Incidentally the roadside check of a rotor arm is to remove the distributor cap, leave the rotor arm in-situ, hold the coil lead about 3mm away from the rotor conductor strip and flick the points (ignition on). If you get a spark it is faulty. _________________ Quote from my late Dad:- You only need a woman and a car and you have all the problems you
are ever likely to want". Computers had not been invented then! |
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rubythursday
Joined: 23 Nov 2007 Posts: 5
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Posted: Thu Jul 09, 2009 11:42 pm Post subject: |
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The rotor arm has a resistor built into it for radio supression, it is this that fails. Solder a piece of wire accross it and you will have no furher problems. |
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Nic Jarman
Joined: 05 Oct 2008 Posts: 1031 Location: Stoke by Clare, Suffolk
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Posted: Wed Jul 15, 2009 9:52 pm Post subject: |
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I think what most of the rotor arm failures we are talking (typing) about are the Chinees made arms that have a rivet that shorts out. _________________ 1936 Morris 8 Series 1
1973 MGB roadster
1977 MG Midget 1500
Dax Rush |
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Jim.Walker
Joined: 27 Dec 2008 Posts: 1229 Location: Chesterfield
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Posted: Sat Jul 18, 2009 10:49 pm Post subject: |
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No one here has mentioned the air-gap between rotor blade and the distributor segments. The electricity has to jump that gap and should the gap become too great because of rotor tip erosion or segment erosion the rotor arm may fail. The gap resistance can be tested on a Crypton analyser or such, but for mere mortals visual inspection is the only way. Any sign of excess erosion on either part, replace it.
UKDAVE2002 blames voltage increases with capacitor discharge systems. Although such systems are capable of developing higher voltages, NO ignition system can deliver a voltage higher than necessary to break down all the resistances in the circuit. Even old fashioned coil/contact breaker systems are capable of voltages up to 30,000 volts, but rarely run at more than 20,000 volts unless plug gaps are too wide etc. and that voltage falls dramatically as soon as the plug gap is ionised (sparking). _________________ Quote from my late Dad:- You only need a woman and a car and you have all the problems you
are ever likely to want". Computers had not been invented then! |
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roverdriver
Joined: 18 Oct 2008 Posts: 1210 Location: 100 miles from Melbourne, Victoria, Australia
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Posted: Mon Jul 20, 2009 11:33 am Post subject: |
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My supplier located some Champion brand rotors. They are marked 'Made in Italy'. The 'Bosch' one that failed had no markings at all.
I fitted a Champion one, carrying another Champion as well as a known-good old one as spares. My wife and I have just completed a little jaunt of 4,933 K's from Southern Victoria, to North of Brisbane and back. The spares remained un-touched along with all my other 'just in case' spare parts. I'll write about our trip shortly. _________________ Dane- roverdriver but not a Viking. |
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Jonv8
Joined: 28 Jan 2009 Posts: 66
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Posted: Wed Sep 09, 2009 10:40 pm Post subject: |
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Jim.Walker wrote: | No one here has mentioned the air-gap between rotor blade and the distributor segments. The electricity has to jump that gap and should the gap become too great because of rotor tip erosion or segment erosion the rotor arm may fail. The gap resistance can be tested on a Crypton analyser or such, but for mere mortals visual inspection is the only way. Any sign of excess erosion on either part, replace it.
UKDAVE2002 blames voltage increases with capacitor discharge systems. Although such systems are capable of developing higher voltages, NO ignition system can deliver a voltage higher than necessary to break down all the resistances in the circuit. Even old fashioned coil/contact breaker systems are capable of voltages up to 30,000 volts, but rarely run at more than 20,000 volts unless plug gaps are too wide etc. and that voltage falls dramatically as soon as the plug gap is ionised (sparking). |
Excellent post,well described - I hate all the adverts describing massive voltages from their coils/amplifiers etc.I use a Pico oscilliscope to diagnose electrical faults in the main course of my work.(Modern Landrover electrical "issues") but recently I have been asked to sort out some older systems.These have ranged from a 1917 trembler coil on a Wade dragsaw,an Alvis sprint car and various SI/SIIA Landrovers.The Wade proved that there was no problem with ignition,but all the rest had faults caused by modern branded rotor arms and caps.The Alvis also had a cam problem which did not allow the points to close properly so the coil could not charge fully between spark events.The scope is very good at removing guesswork from these jobs.
It seems that modern igniton replacements are just churned out with little regard to quality,as I type this it also reminds me of fitting a complete set of replacement ignition components to a grey Fergie - ran a treat for 2 months.Then was worse than before,the points,condensor etc were just rubbish.It now has electronic ignition and runs beautifully.
It seems many of the classic "suppliers" are selling boxes of kippers.
Now I'm even thinking about the E Type parts I'm supposed to use in the near future,just opening the boxes does not inspire confidence. |
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Phil Lincoln
Joined: 18 Oct 2009 Posts: 26 Location: LINCOLN
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Posted: Fri Oct 23, 2009 10:08 pm Post subject: ROTOR S |
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In the Uk ,there are many rotors being sold as genuine Lucas parts when they are Chinese imports.My Rover 95 had one which disintegrated on return from passing its MOT after ten years off the road.
Try The Distributor Doctor ( he has a web site ).He is having rotor arms made to original quality.
I have one on the car and another in the boot ,just in case.
Regards to all ,
Phil |
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Jim.Walker
Joined: 27 Dec 2008 Posts: 1229 Location: Chesterfield
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Posted: Fri Oct 23, 2009 10:14 pm Post subject: |
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I'll endorse the Distributor Doctor recommendation. He seems to have new ignition parts that do not seem to be available elsewhere any longer. _________________ Quote from my late Dad:- You only need a woman and a car and you have all the problems you
are ever likely to want". Computers had not been invented then! |
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bob2
Joined: 06 Dec 2007 Posts: 1728 Location: Malta
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Posted: Sat Jun 15, 2024 4:27 pm Post subject: |
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Have similar problems to what Dave had way back with his morris on my mgb.
The car starts fine from cold with some choke, then when you are back from a run, it will not fire up. plugs were a bit sooty so I thought too much fuel, closed both sus and have a goodish burn if a bit lean and still no go after a run. It will eventually start after 20 minutes or so or if I take off the plugs!
Could it be a rotor arm issue too?
I will see if it is the same as the one on my minis and swap them over to check if the issue persists. |
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