Classic cars forum & vehicle restoration.

[Uncle Joe]

Well, that is the first time that I have ever been accused of penny pinching! To put it in a nutshell, my philosophy is to do the best possible job, for the least amount of money.

The one thing that I can think is better with SPL's process is the cleaning, even though I suspect that it will still need a bit of post treatment attention.

chimpchoker, I fully realise what you are are about with the Jag. I tend to be pedantic with restorations, although I dont usually keep cars. What you intend to do is exactly the same as I will be doing to the Lincoln. ie, a perfect job with upgrades, and then keeping it. Along with my 300, which in spite of it looking good, will have a total restoration eventually!

I know that I am blowing my own trumpet here, but, as far as restorations lasting goes, consider this. About three years ago, when I was in the UK, I visited a classic car show. At that show, I noticed one of my restorations. I got talking to the owner, who told me that he had inherited it from his father. His father turned out to be the guy that had bought it from me all those years ago. No work, apart from maintenance had ever been done on that car. It even had the same paintwork that I applied! I could tell this because I had messed up slightly in one area, and I could still see this!

Now then, maybe you believe me, maybe you dont. Thats your choice! But, when a restoration lasts over thirty (thats 30) years, I must know what I am doing! Or maybe not?

As far as the expert goes. Why did you put the word within quotation marks? Do you not believe that he is an expert? I will admit, I do actually know who he is, and believe you me, if he had said that SPL's process was best, I would have believed him and used it! And took the flak from you all in the process.

UJ

[rustbuster]

As you have correctly stated phosphating process is not new technology at all, it's been done for years ever since it was discovered that phosphoric acid provided a passivating shock to the rust steel.

What exactly is new about the primer they are using ?

I have seen body shells this company shows at exhibitions and the steel once exposed appears to be very rough and pitted, how would you propose to teat the pitted areas?

Ref the point of preparation yes SA 2.5 is a Swedish standard.

The system using a surface tolerant Epoxy coating if applied correctly will not rust through as you have described. It will treat a pitted surface and can be applied in a very high film thickness 400um without solvent entrapment. Providing a superb barrier to water ingress.

Prior to spending your hard earnt cash on the dipping and treatment exactly what will you be applying to the underside of the car and other areas exposed to the road. It's these areas that would concern me most.

Regards
Ian

by the way "expert" enough to be a consultant to Scania , Lotus cars, Ford NP AErospace (manufacturers of MOD snatch Landrovers) to name but a few satisfied clients.

[chimpchoker]

Sorry for putting the expert in the " " marks. I don't doubt for a moment you know what you are talking about. My mis use of the quotation marks may well signify my poor use of the Queens English or the mere fact I wished to emphasise the use of the word but also in the internet world it could also signify that anyone can take on the persona of being an "expert" and being a "rust buster" without actually having to declare their expert credentials. My point was that UJ would have stayed quiet if you, rustbuster had said that he was wrong.

I'm considered something of an "expert" in candlemaking because I know an awful lot more than many others but I have no formal qualifications in the subject whilst recently in the press there was a guy who bought his degree off the internet and set himself up as a criminal sycologist (Spelling ??) and as such an "expert" witness. His fraud has recently came to light after 20 years of decite.

If after the spl treatment the bodywork is pitted then it will no doubt be covered in a bodyfiller type subastance such as seen on The american hotrod series.
As for my plans for the underside of the car then that remains to be decided upon but probably primer, enamel paint then underseal with all the seams sealed and the box sections and cavities waxoiled.......unless you know better and thus I'll consider your opinions and investigate the same before making my mind up.

Alan

[Uncle Joe]

Chimpchoker, as I said in my previous posting, if rustbuster had said that I was wrong, then I would have admitted it! And took the flak! At least I would have learned something new!

If you had cared to go to my other posting, (rust preventative paints) in the other forum section, then you would have realised that my opinion was based on facts received. Facts which I did my best to check! From the mistakes of others, I realised what would work best, and what wouldn't! I think that Rustbusters posting has proved my findings.

Chimpchoker, one other point. In one of the previous you suggested that I was an unbeliever in new things (the man on the moon comment). If you had cared to look at some of my other postings, then you would realise that if I find something better, I will use it! As well as try to recommend it.

If the only reason that you are going to use SPL's process is to get one over on me, then....

UJ

[UKdave2002]

I’m with Chimpchoker on this; I’m not an expert but have a practical common scene view.

Blast Cleaning
Is OK as long as you can get at the metal, at a bare minimum you need to be able to roll the body over and even then will not be able to confidently clean & de-rust the inner box sections. Blast cleaning is more lightly to distort panels. A dip will also get right into seams, blast cleaning can never do this.

If you are paying someone to blast clean it won’t be any cheaper than paying for a dip, if done as a DIY job at home at you need the gear including a bloody good compressor (unless you want to spent a long time doing it!!), but it creates one hell of a mess, that you certainly would not want in your garage or drive.

As for asking someone to blast clean to a Swedish standard!!! GET REAL most of us will not have access to the firms who blast to a Swedish or other European spec! and if we did can you imagine the cost £££££.

Non of the experts have expressed an opinion on electro priming technology? again you can’t create this at home, or can you ? I believe this method gets paint into areas that conventional painting never can.

My last point ; how come the 2 “experts” in this thread have a view that differs from all the mainstream vehicle manufacturers regarding corrosion prevention??? and why do they both refer to Swedish standards? Do Volvo & Saab do things differently/ better?

Of all the processes I have seen be it commercial or DIY, SPL’s seems to be the most comprehensive & credible , ultimately it must offer the best long term return on investment. With a complex shell like Chimpchokers Mk11 Jag you want to do it once and do it right.

Dave

[Rick]

Interesting topic chaps, thanks for all your input to date. Nice that the discussion can be kept constructive without getting into a slanging match, good stuff

Rick
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[chimpchoker]

Rick,

That is one thing that has impressed me on this site and long may it continue. We can disagree on things but still be big enough to agree to disagree if need be without name caling and bitchiness.

There is one bloke on one of the jag forums I go on and he's restored a car to concours standard from a nut and bolt strip but it needs a piece of rubber pipe 8" long, black with a yellow stripe down the side.

Apart from the hose the car is totally restored and finished but he hasn't driven it in 8 years because it's not "finished" as this hose is not as jaguar made it.

At the same time he rips peoples heads off with sarcastic comments and belittles new contributors because they "ask the usual questions"

On this site it doesn't matter what veichle you have but what you do with it although I do confess to saying I was going to put 18 inch alloy wheels on the jag, black out the windows, paint the disc calipers yellow and put in a 20,000 watt hifi system....He nearly had a heart attack but boy did I get so flack off him....mind you I'm going to put in la curacha air horns, take a video of it and send it to him in america just because I can....lol.


Alan

[buzzy bee]

Hi

Hose with a yellow stripe down it, hmmm, is it balck rubber hose?

I used to work on crop sprayers and there is a UK suplier that sells black rubber hose that has a yellow stripe down it, I know where sells it, or would know where to order it from. I may also have some somewhere but it is probably the wrong diameter. I used to hate using it, all the other hoses being plain black and this stuff has yellow on it!!

Full of useless information! hehe

Cheers

Dave

[Uncle Joe]

Going back to the subject.

Incorrect blast cleaning will distort body panels if done incorrectly. Even so, if you know how to do it, this damage is easy enough to repair! If it distorts chassis sections - you are in deep do-do with the car!

We refer to the Swedish Standard simply because its the base of current applicable standards. If a blast company doesn't know/doesn't use this standard, walk away. They are likely to be 'cowboys'!!! SA2,5 refers to a surface quality, one that is easy enough to achieve at home.

One thing that I do have atendency to forget though, is that it is a lot easier here to buy / use big compressors, and other tools, so we tend to have better facilities for such jobs! 3 phase power, a must for pro. tools is standard in private houses. This is called 'Swedish Practicality!' If any one asks, I can give you more examples of this!

We do have a tendency to do things differently here. Swedish restorers/customisers are amongst the best in the world. Watch Discovery channel. Boyd Coddington has one working for him, Jay Leno two, Chip Foose... and so on....

Volvo/SAAB do (or did) have better rust protection than say, Japanese cars. They have to do. Our climate is more extreme!

Finally, as I have said once before. I am not an expert. I just have a lot of experience. Rustbuster however, IS. And I feel that he has been insulted by referring to him in quotation marks!

[buzzy bee]

Hi

Sorry for drifting, I tend to do that alot!



Cheers

Dave

[chimpchoker]

[Rick]

Gents, I'd rather this didn't descend into a tit-for-tat exchange if the discussion of surface preparations and so on has runs its natural course, thanks. All it'll do is muddy the waters of what has been an interesting discussion, which would be a shame.

Further experiences of products & techniques and so on is welcomed as always

ta, Rick
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[Rick]

Having re-read this thread, I think it is time to make a couple of points.

Any thread that descends into a slanging match, or name-calling, may end up being locked, which doesn't benefit anyone (especially the majority who just want to read about classics and learn more about them), or else the instigator(s) asked to rescind/moderate any statements that might offend others. In extreme cases users may be removed altogether, although I'd see that very much as a last ditch resort, and not one I'd want to have to do.

Forums do by their nature get a bit fraught from time to time as discussions, and contrasting opinions & characters, clash over something the posters feel strongly about, but so far we (me and the moderators) have managed to keep this forum pleasant and constructive, which isn't something that can be levelled at all forums.

I'd ask that unnecessary name-calling, and goading, be avoided wherever possible as it doesn't add to a constructive debate, and just turns away everyone else who up til now may have found the thread of interest.

I want this place to be of interest to everyone, that includes both posters, and the silent majority who may read but not actively post.

1:1 cage rattling is of no interest to other readers and contributors, and the forum isn't the place to get into such a verbal battle, or 'bitch for England' as one poster suggests.

thanks
Rick
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[chimpchoker]

Sorry.

Alan