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3xpendable
Joined: 19 Dec 2010 Posts: 222 Location: USA
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Posted: Tue Jan 25, 2011 5:24 pm Post subject: Can people who upgrade their suspension please stop saying… |
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…it handles like a go-kart!
I have been doing some research on suspension setups for my V8 project lately and I’m getting annoyed with people who stiffen or slam their car and proclaim it to ‘handle like a go kart’. While it may be stiff and stuck to the road it DOES NOT handle like a go-kart! If you have ever driven a professional kart (like I have) then you would realise this.
After any racing event any roadcar I drive shortly afterwards feels totally sloppy. This is due to a number of dynamics being completely different in the way a kart and car handle (which I can vouch for having raced since I was 8, and done my two university dissertations on the handling characteristics of a kart). Firstly, a car is a lot lot heavier than a kart, secondly a car has suspension whereas a kart does not, only the flex in the chassis frame. For a car to have anywhere near the equivalent handling the suspension would have to be solidly mounted to the shell with no form of bushes whatsoever and this my friends, would shake your eyes out. I've driven my kart on some public roads (legally) and let me tell you, even at pedestrian speeds it was a nightmare. Every single ripple and bump really destabalises the thing. Thirdly a kart has very little mass overhanging the front or rear wheels.
Finally, a car uses the body roll during cornering to generate weight transfer (hence grip) to the outside wheels and to enable this, the roll centre is usually fairly high in comparison with a racing car (in fact its possible to set a modern F1 car up to have a negative roll centre meaning its below ground level and can make the car lean in to a corner!). With a kart the roll centre is much lower and as there is no ‘roll’ as such the weight transfer has to be generated by the geometry of the front wheels and their relationship to the rear axle (which is solid) which is why karts run a very high caster angle and KPI (as much as 10º). This is to force the inside rear wheel to lift into a corner, and also lowering the outside front of the kart thereby giving you your weight transfer. The datalogger on my kart shows it can corner at 3-4G...far more than a roadcar.
So in summary, if anyone ever tries to tell you their car handles like that, please correct them  _________________ 2013 Dodge Durango R/T Hemi
1965 Ford Anglia 106e Estate (LHD)
1964 Ford Anglia 105E 1500 GT (Dad)
1980 Porsche 911 SC Targa (Uncle)
1971 MGB GT (V8 project) -SOLD 2016
2005 MINI Cooper S JCW - SOLD 2016
Last edited by 3xpendable on Wed Jan 26, 2011 10:15 am; edited 1 time in total |
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Riley Blue
Joined: 18 Jun 2008 Posts: 1751 Location: Derbyshire
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Posted: Tue Jan 25, 2011 7:29 pm Post subject: |
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I always reckoned my GTI cornered like a heat-seeking ferret - am I allowed to use that....? |
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Peter_L
Joined: 10 Apr 2008 Posts: 2680 Location: New Brunswick. Canada.
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Posted: Tue Jan 25, 2011 7:41 pm Post subject: |
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riley541 wrote: | I always reckoned my GTI cornered like a heat-seeking ferret - am I allowed to use that....? |
No ! It is a car forum not pet's corner |
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Riley Blue
Joined: 18 Jun 2008 Posts: 1751 Location: Derbyshire
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Posted: Tue Jan 25, 2011 7:55 pm Post subject: |
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Richard H
Joined: 03 Apr 2009 Posts: 2150 Location: Lincolnshire, UK
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Posted: Tue Jan 25, 2011 8:42 pm Post subject: |
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I can't stand 'slammed' cars, it's not too bad when it's been done well, but mostly it looks utterly naff. There was someone on a certain forum for modifed classic cars who let all the gas out of the hydrogas suspension on his Metro, he reckoned it looked great, he did not seem to understand what was pointed out to him, that all the suspension stresses are now being transferred straight into the bodyshell via the bumpstops.  |
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buzzy bee

Joined: 23 Nov 2007 Posts: 3382 Location: South Cheshire
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Posted: Tue Jan 25, 2011 9:32 pm Post subject: |
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Karts are still all to easy to tip over, if you have raced them, I am sure you will agree. I have expericinced it.  |
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3xpendable
Joined: 19 Dec 2010 Posts: 222 Location: USA
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Posted: Tue Jan 25, 2011 10:37 pm Post subject: |
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buzzy bee wrote: | Karts are still all to easy to tip over, if you have raced them, I am sure you will agree. I have expericinced it.  |
Quite the opposite from my experience, lord knows what you were doing! I've only rolled twice in the last 15 years and both were after making contact with a tyre wall or gravel trap. And that includes flinging myself into the scenery at 116mph at Mallory Park when my engine siezed up (ended up in the medical centre hehe) _________________ 2013 Dodge Durango R/T Hemi
1965 Ford Anglia 106e Estate (LHD)
1964 Ford Anglia 105E 1500 GT (Dad)
1980 Porsche 911 SC Targa (Uncle)
1971 MGB GT (V8 project) -SOLD 2016
2005 MINI Cooper S JCW - SOLD 2016 |
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Uncle Alec

Joined: 14 Jan 2008 Posts: 734 Location: Manchester
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Posted: Tue Jan 25, 2011 11:11 pm Post subject: |
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Must be a good medical centre if it can unseize engines! Or do you mean that's where it landed? |
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buzzy bee

Joined: 23 Nov 2007 Posts: 3382 Location: South Cheshire
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Posted: Wed Jan 26, 2011 8:47 am Post subject: |
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Welshie wrote: | buzzy bee wrote: | Karts are still all to easy to tip over, if you have raced them, I am sure you will agree. I have expericinced it.  |
Quite the opposite from my experience, lord knows what you were doing! I've only rolled twice in the last 15 years and both were after making contact with a tyre wall or gravel trap. And that includes flinging myself into the scenery at 116mph at Mallory Park when my engine siezed up (ended up in the medical centre hehe) |
I will have to take you karting some day!  |
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3xpendable
Joined: 19 Dec 2010 Posts: 222 Location: USA
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Posted: Wed Jan 26, 2011 9:10 am Post subject: |
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Naah I 'landed' pretty deeply into a tyre wall
buzzy bee wrote: |
I will have to take you karting some day!  |
As long as you go nowhere near my kart I'm happy with that! _________________ 2013 Dodge Durango R/T Hemi
1965 Ford Anglia 106e Estate (LHD)
1964 Ford Anglia 105E 1500 GT (Dad)
1980 Porsche 911 SC Targa (Uncle)
1971 MGB GT (V8 project) -SOLD 2016
2005 MINI Cooper S JCW - SOLD 2016 |
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Riley Blue
Joined: 18 Jun 2008 Posts: 1751 Location: Derbyshire
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Posted: Wed Jan 26, 2011 9:34 am Post subject: |
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Er... "corners on rails" - can I use that? |
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3xpendable
Joined: 19 Dec 2010 Posts: 222 Location: USA
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Posted: Wed Jan 26, 2011 9:49 am Post subject: |
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riley541 wrote: | Er... "corners on rails" - can I use that? |
I don't care what you use, as long as the word 'Kart' isn't in it  _________________ 2013 Dodge Durango R/T Hemi
1965 Ford Anglia 106e Estate (LHD)
1964 Ford Anglia 105E 1500 GT (Dad)
1980 Porsche 911 SC Targa (Uncle)
1971 MGB GT (V8 project) -SOLD 2016
2005 MINI Cooper S JCW - SOLD 2016 |
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Rick Site Admin

Joined: 27 Apr 2005 Posts: 22779 Location: UK
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buzzy bee

Joined: 23 Nov 2007 Posts: 3382 Location: South Cheshire
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Posted: Wed Jan 26, 2011 7:43 pm Post subject: |
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Welshie wrote: | Naah I 'landed' pretty deeply into a tyre wall
buzzy bee wrote: |
I will have to take you karting some day!  |
As long as you go nowhere near my kart I'm happy with that! |
He he
Great stuff!
Any more pics of your kart?
I can't really remember what class it was, but I think it was something like TKM or simmilar that I used to be interested in, then it went into other motorsport, and now out of motorsport into old stuff, and steam. |
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3xpendable
Joined: 19 Dec 2010 Posts: 222 Location: USA
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Posted: Thu Jan 27, 2011 9:12 am Post subject: |
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Yup I started in TKM and still have my kart, great class!
Here ya go, any questions just fire away (apart from stupid ones like "Do you use it at the local indoor karting centre?")
 _________________ 2013 Dodge Durango R/T Hemi
1965 Ford Anglia 106e Estate (LHD)
1964 Ford Anglia 105E 1500 GT (Dad)
1980 Porsche 911 SC Targa (Uncle)
1971 MGB GT (V8 project) -SOLD 2016
2005 MINI Cooper S JCW - SOLD 2016 |
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