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Pedantic? who me?
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Rick
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Joined: 27 Apr 2005
Posts: 22778
Location: UK

PostPosted: Sat Feb 05, 2011 8:47 pm    Post subject: Pedantic? who me? Reply with quote

I'd be interested to hear your opinions on how pedantic (or not) you are, when it comes to your car(s)? One thing I'm keen on with the truck's rebuild is the use of correct fastenings, with - for example - no cross-head screws anywhere. Perhaps this is because it's been taken down to virtually the last nut and bolt, and built back up from there.

With day-to-day maintenance on the other stuff I'm a little less fussy, although will still avoid fitting anything that isn't in period, or period looking, wherever possible.

My pet hate is modern indicators, often sourced from motorcycles, fitted to old (say pre-war) cars. Worse, pre-war cars that have had indicator units from 1950's or 1960s car screwed through their otherwise immaculate wings. Arrrrrggghhhh Smile Smile Maybe I'm just too finicky Smile

RJ
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Richard H



Joined: 03 Apr 2009
Posts: 2150
Location: Lincolnshire, UK

PostPosted: Sat Feb 05, 2011 8:56 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Numberplates. I can usually spot non-original plates a mile off (wrong font etc).
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FrazzleTC



Joined: 28 Dec 2010
Posts: 146
Location: Dumfries and Galloway

PostPosted: Sat Feb 05, 2011 9:05 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I'm very pedantic about my car, but I know full well, that it's certainly not original in terms of various bits, though I intend to return it to original spec in due course.
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Churchill Johnson



Joined: 11 Jan 2011
Posts: 359
Location: Rayleigh Essex

PostPosted: Sat Feb 05, 2011 11:40 pm    Post subject: Pendemic Reply with quote

I agree Rick the only problem with not using modern indicators is other road users! would it not be possible to use the set-up as the old Bentleys that used a spotlight at the front as a turn indicator and a stop-light at the rear for the same job or is that against the regulations today, as for things like the fasteners then if they are available then they should be used.
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Richard H



Joined: 03 Apr 2009
Posts: 2150
Location: Lincolnshire, UK

PostPosted: Sat Feb 05, 2011 11:47 pm    Post subject: Re: Pendemic Reply with quote

Churchill Johnson wrote:
I agree Rick the only problem with not using modern indicators is other road users!


Very true, I remember a couple of years ago my dad took the Ruby out for a run, for the last 1/2 mile he was tailgated by some stupid woman in a 4x4, when he put the trafficator out and pulled into the drive he received a huge blast on the horn as Ms.Thick hadn't seen the trafficator Rolling Eyes Evil or Very Mad
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Riley Blue



Joined: 18 Jun 2008
Posts: 1751
Location: Derbyshire

PostPosted: Sun Feb 06, 2011 8:02 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Doesn't bother me as all my cars have been modified right back to the first, a '62 Mini Traveller. Today I'll use whatever appeals to me or is necessary to keep my current classic, a '63 Riley 1.5, on the road so it has alloy wheels, non-standard seats, the wrong colour carpets and several tweaks under the bonnet - I like it, that's all that matters, I really don't give any thought to what others may think.

If others want to keep their car original, that's up to them; it's just not my 'thing' but I don't get my knickers in a twist either way.
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P3steve



Joined: 24 Nov 2007
Posts: 542
Location: Great Yarmouth, Norfolk

PostPosted: Sun Feb 06, 2011 10:22 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

My P3 Rover has had indicators fitted into the reverse light housing at the rear and in the side light at the front by changing the bulb holder to a double fillerment type so unless they flash you cant see them, the only down side is that they show a white light to the front so when it has its MOT its tested on the semaphores alone. On the road the drill is when I want to turn I use the semaphore and keep my eye on the driver behind in the mirror, if I see him laugh or nudge the person next to him pointing in the direction of the semaphore I know he's seen it if there's no responce then I swich on the flashing indicators, Had the Rover ten years an can say I've never had any trouble so I guess I must be lucky. The Standard ten is a bit differant as it has a centre amber Brake light built into the boot catch but flashing red indicatore in the normal position with the side lights, its off the road at the momment for a rebuild but its going to be fun to see how people deal with that.
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Roger-hatchy



Joined: 07 Dec 2007
Posts: 2135
Location: Tiptree, Essex

PostPosted: Sun Feb 06, 2011 10:22 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

OK Mine is not standard by any means.
But I can't see the point of having a car laid up with no hope of ever being on the road if original parts are no longer available.
OK I can hear people saying parts should be made, but is the car then still original.

And the other point Who's car is it , yours or the clipboard check sheet wielder.

We have had examples of clipboard examinations of vehicles that the clipboard wielder has only seen photos of on here.
One instance is that a set of plug leads were not laying in the correct path.
Dose that mean the car should not be used.

There is at least one classic I have seen on here with non original flashers fitted but done in a way as not to be too intrusive to the overall look of the car.
The flashers on mine are not original but don't look out of place, in fact look original.

Has it not been common since the car was first invented to upgrade, change parts to suit an individual, or improve the car.
What about the 40's 50's and 60's specials, was not Jaguars first started with 'specials' Bitsa's, should they be deemed of no classic value.

If I wish to see a car as it rolled of the production line, but is it, I'll go to a museum
What about tyres, my originals were British bourganan (Spelling?)
No longer available since the 50's and no one makes any with that name on, so am I supposed to just leave the car on jacks.
OK I do try and get tyres with the same tread pattern.
How many have the same make, ply, tread and construction of tyres that were fitted on leaving the factory.

Rant over

But I do agree if originality is what YOU want and can be kept to, and you can make your own parts if no sources available, as has been seen on other threads on here, or can afford to have them made then by all means yes do so.
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JohnDale



Joined: 19 Mar 2008
Posts: 790
Location: Kelvin Valley,Scotland

PostPosted: Sun Feb 06, 2011 11:14 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Hi Standardsteve, below is taken from the MOT testers manual

1. Operate the direction indicators on each side in turn and check the colour, flash rate and is not obscurred, ,Check that the illumination of the indicators is not affected by the operation of any other lamp. Each Lamp must emit an amber light, except vehicles first used before 1 September 1965 where both front indicators may be white and both rear indicators red.

My 1960 Zephyr has white front indicators & has no problem passing this section of the test. Maybe you should mention this to your tester as your P3 is older. Cheers,JohnDale.
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Riley Blue



Joined: 18 Jun 2008
Posts: 1751
Location: Derbyshire

PostPosted: Sun Feb 06, 2011 12:03 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Right with you there Roger - agree with your every word.

As far as combining flashing indicator lights into the side light housing goes, I was once told that they could fail construction & use regs, I imagine on visibility grounds - with side light on, would others see the flashing indicator? I've never bothered to follow up that comment, other may wish to.
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BigJohn



Joined: 01 Jan 2011
Posts: 954
Location: Wem, Shropshire

PostPosted: Sun Feb 06, 2011 12:24 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Standard Steve, my 1957 10 had the same lights, and at one mot the new employee tester failed me over them, then got in a strop when I told him he was wrong, threw a hissy fit when told to get his regs out, then his boss arrived, who had tested the car the previous year, then it got a bit loud. I got my test and Mr Angry left the garage about 6 weeks later to go back to the fast fit/blind them with bull/give them a big bill outfit he had previously worked for!
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Riley Blue



Joined: 18 Jun 2008
Posts: 1751
Location: Derbyshire

PostPosted: Sun Feb 06, 2011 12:55 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Irrespective of what the regs might allow, I'd be erring on the side of safety and fit amber indicators all round - that's what other drivers look for these days. You can easily fit a coloured bulb behind a white or clear lens.
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JohnDale



Joined: 19 Mar 2008
Posts: 790
Location: Kelvin Valley,Scotland

PostPosted: Sun Feb 06, 2011 1:41 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

The Standard ten is a bit differant as it has a centre amber Brake light built into the boot catch but flashing red indicatore in the normal position with the side lights, its off the road at the momment for a rebuild but its going to be fun to see how people deal with that.[/quote]

Hi Standardsteve,again from the testers manual,

This inspection applies to all stop lamps fitted.

Vehicles first used before 1 January 1936 are not required to be fitted with a stop lamp.

Stop lamps are not required to be fitted to vehicles used only during the hours of daylight, which are fitted with neither front nor rear position lamps, etc. (See 1.1.A)

Vehicles first used before 1 January 1971 must be fitted with one stop lamp either on or to the offside of the vehicle centre line. If such a vehicle has two lamps fitted, it should be treated as a vehicle first used on or after 1 January 1971.

Vehicles first used on or after 1 January 1971 must be fitted with two obligatory stop lamps.

Additional stop lamps fitted and connected must be tested. Where extra lamps are fitted and there is doubt as to whether they are connected, the benefit of this doubt should be given to the presenter.

On vehicles first used before 1 September 1965 it is acceptable for a stop lamp to be incorporated with a direction indicator lamp.

Tricycle and quadricycle requirements are detailed at Section 9.1
1. Apply the service brake and check that the correct number of stop lamps:

a. are fitted

Note: The precise position of obligatory stop lamps is not part of the inspection, but check visually that the lamps are at about the same height and the same distance from each side of the vehicle.

b. are in good working order

Note: At least 50% of light sources in a lamp must illuminate and at least 50% of each lamp must be visible from the rear.

c. emit a steady red light

d. are not adversely affected by the operation of any other lamp.



1. A stop lamp:

a. missing, insecure, obviously incorrectly positioned or does not face to the rear

b. inoperative, excessively damaged, deteriorated or obscured so that they are not visible from a reasonable distance

Note: An effective proprietary repair (e.g. lens repair tape etc.) must be assessed on its merits, considering security, colour, light output and durability.

c. shows other than a steady red light when the service brake is applied, or remains on when the brake is released

d. adversely affected by the operation of any other lamp, e.g. dual-function lamps on foreign vehicles.

You may have a problem with the Tens single AMBER light & the position
of a single brake light plus flashing RED indicators.

The Zephyr side/flasher lamp uses a twin contact 5/21w bulb in a white lens so would need to have the whole holder changed to have an amber single 21w bulb fitted which would also do away with the sidelight. A further problem would be finding a holder which would fit in the original housing - the sidelight could go in the headlight. Cheers,JohnDale.
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P3steve



Joined: 24 Nov 2007
Posts: 542
Location: Great Yarmouth, Norfolk

PostPosted: Sun Feb 06, 2011 3:23 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Thanks for that John I'm going to save your posts as I think that in the future with younger MOT testers replacing people who grew up with these cars were going to see more and more disputes over what goes. The Rover is a 1949 model and the chap I take it to (who is retirering this year) told me he couldnt test it on the flashing indicators as there not original equipment to the car, this has never been a problem as the semaphores work fine. The rear light unit has a frosted section over the side tail light light section but clear glass over what was the reverse lamp section so its got an amber bulb in there, the front side lights are the Lucus torpedo type so there's not much scope for fitting an amber lense or amber bulb. Belowe are photo's of both the Rover showing the lucus Torpedo side lights and the Standard (taken on Yarmouth seafront note the Rover in the background) this was before taking the Standard off the road for restoration as it was a lot worse than it looks here after the last owner restored it in the 1980s (for restore read Isopon rebuild) also its been re-registered sinse then because as well as bodging it he sold off the orig number.




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Phil - Nottingham



Joined: 01 Jan 2008
Posts: 1252
Location: Nottingham

PostPosted: Sun Feb 06, 2011 7:07 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Nice cars - you can get Orange halogen bulbs with the small BA9s cap which easily fit inside even the small torpedo lamps never mide teh larger type used on P2/P3's

Holdens do a dual conversion to keep the side light too
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