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whiteshadow
Joined: 24 Jan 2011 Posts: 78
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Posted: Tue Jan 31, 2012 10:43 pm Post subject: Tracking Alignment |
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Last year I put one of my wheels down a pot hole and slightly mucked up the tracking.....steering wheel now v.slightly off-centre, but no noticeable tyre wear.
I can't see anything noticeably bent, so what gives to upset the steering?
On the market now there is a cheap self-calibrating tracking alignment system ~£85. As I've got the above problem + tracking to do on my restoration + I don't trust must of the tyre centres = it's looking attractive......anyone used one? |
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47Jag
Joined: 26 Jun 2008 Posts: 1480 Location: Bothwell, Scotland
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Posted: Tue Jan 31, 2012 11:06 pm Post subject: |
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What car are we talking about? If it has independant front suspension then check the side that hit the pothole. The chances are that the lower control arm has had some sort of damage done to it.
Art |
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whiteshadow
Joined: 24 Jan 2011 Posts: 78
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Posted: Tue Jan 31, 2012 11:24 pm Post subject: Pothole |
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The car that went down the pothole is a 2010 Polo. |
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MVPeters
Joined: 28 Aug 2008 Posts: 822 Location: Northern MA, USA
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Posted: Wed Feb 01, 2012 12:12 am Post subject: |
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On a car that recent I'd get a professional 4-wheel laser alignment if you think you need one at all. "Moderns" need far more sophisticated equipment than classics. Their alignment can be 'off' without anything being 'bent' - it's just tolerance in all the various bushes. _________________ Mike - MVPeters at comcast.net
2002 MINI Cooper 'S' |
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MikeEdwards
Joined: 25 May 2011 Posts: 2502 Location: South Cheshire
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Posted: Wed Feb 01, 2012 7:28 pm Post subject: |
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There's a description in the latest 'Practical Classics' showing how to make your own tracking gauge out of a few bits of wood and possibly a bit of sticky-backed plastic, but it looks along similar lines to the one my mate has had lurking in his workshop for 30+ years. |
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whiteshadow
Joined: 24 Jan 2011 Posts: 78
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Posted: Wed Feb 01, 2012 7:50 pm Post subject: Gauges |
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I've done a few things, where I've ended up with water levels and bits of string...
My experience is that it takes ages and is very prone to error. String always seems to sag or bend when a measurement is taken. Then you kick one of the datums and have to start from scratch.
Sorry .....Yes I know! the latest way PC showed how to do it was with a wooden frame.
I just can't decide if I should get a sensible bit of kit, or to play about with laser pointers, wood & rulers?
Still don't really see why the tracking is knocked off by moderate impacts, what is deforming? |
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Kelsham
Joined: 18 Jan 2009 Posts: 349 Location: Llandrindod Wells Powys
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Posted: Thu Feb 02, 2012 9:53 am Post subject: tracking alignment |
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I use a Gunsons Trakrite, you need a flat area of floor and slowly drive over it. Any deflection is shown by a pointer at the side of the gauge.
The advantage is that you are testing the tracking with running loads applied to the steering mechanism.
I have used mine over several years it is a great tool.
I am not sure why you think your tracking is out? it sounds as if you may have bent something?
Regards Kels. |
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Julian
Joined: 19 Apr 2010 Posts: 278 Location: Warrington
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Posted: Thu Feb 02, 2012 10:59 am Post subject: Re: tracking alignment |
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Kelsham wrote: | I use a Gunsons Trakrite, you need a flat area of floor and slowly drive over it. Any deflection is shown by a pointer at the side of the gauge.
The advantage is that you are testing the tracking with running loads applied to the steering mechanism.
I have used mine over several years it is a great tool.
I am not sure why you think your tracking is out? it sounds as if you may have bent something?
Regards Kels. |
Gunsons Trackrite is a good bit of kit, I've had mine for well over a decade and used it loads - never had any trouble with it until I used it on a 7.5ton truck with the tracking so far out that it snapped the indicator needle off! A bit of glue sorted it.
Julian. |
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whiteshadow
Joined: 24 Jan 2011 Posts: 78
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Posted: Thu Feb 02, 2012 11:01 am Post subject: trackrite |
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I must admit, I have never really considered the trackrite as it always seemed a bit wobbly.......does it give consistant readings?
Also I'm a bit short on level ground, the only bit that isn't mud is in the garage...and that's small with two cars in it.
I do worry that the laser thingy only gives the composite reading for the front wheels, when sometimes I want to know if all the error is from one wheel. |
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Julian
Joined: 19 Apr 2010 Posts: 278 Location: Warrington
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Posted: Thu Feb 02, 2012 12:12 pm Post subject: Re: trackrite |
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whiteshadow wrote: | I must admit, I have never really considered the trackrite as it always seemed a bit wobbly.......does it give consistant readings?
Also I'm a bit short on level ground, the only bit that isn't mud is in the garage...and that's small with two cars in it.
I do worry that the laser thingy only gives the composite reading for the front wheels, when sometimes I want to know if all the error is from one wheel. |
Yes the TR is fine, takes a bit of getting used to and in the early days with mine I always rolled over it about 5 times to make certain that things were OK. If you've no level ground then do it in a road, that's what I did once, just pick one with little camber or gravity will likely upset the readings.
Talking of 'composite readings,' does it matter? From my perspective all I look for it that the track control arms (from the rack) are approximately equal in length with the tracking correct - just the re-centre the steering wheel on the splines if needed. Job done
If you've got some new fangled modern car with an airbag and you're not feeling inclined to remove the steering wheel then you will need to fiddle about with the respective lengths of the TCA's if you want the car to drive straight ahead with the steering wheel centered
Julian. |
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Churchill Johnson
Joined: 11 Jan 2011 Posts: 359 Location: Rayleigh Essex
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Posted: Thu Feb 02, 2012 10:13 pm Post subject: |
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Ref removing and refitting the steering wheel in a different position this may seem the logical thing to do but it is not stop and think about it if you ajust only one side of a trackrod so the tracking is ok it will put out the amount of turning circle towards the side that has been adjusted and as a former car mechanic i have seen this done loads of times so always adjust both sides the same amount i always used white paint or tip-ex to mark the rod and ball joint before its moved and always hold the ball-joint with a spanner if it has two flats or mole-grips if not this stops putting a strain on the joint as again i have had the rods seize in the joint,from my experience i liked the run on type of tracking tool tool as this do's give a more true reading but always run on them in a normal driving direction and not reverse as this will show a wrong reading. |
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Julian
Joined: 19 Apr 2010 Posts: 278 Location: Warrington
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Posted: Thu Feb 02, 2012 10:53 pm Post subject: |
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Churchill Johnson wrote: | Ref removing and refitting the steering wheel in a different position this may seem the logical thing to do, but it is not . |
Hi, I took the liberty of sticking a comma in the quote as I think It helps with understanding your point?
As I detailed in my reply, the correct(est) way to go about it is to have both track control arm lengths equal, that's all there is to it. Marking with tip-ex is only good if you happen to know that the track control arms are both equal length in the first place and have not been previously bsuggered about with by some half-wit!
If you have unequal lengths on the TCA's then the car's bump-steer characteristics will be odd.
After you've done all that and set the tracking correctly then setting the steering wheel central again is the way forward!
Julian. |
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Kelsham
Joined: 18 Jan 2009 Posts: 349 Location: Llandrindod Wells Powys
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Posted: Fri Feb 03, 2012 10:25 am Post subject: tracking alignment |
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As I suggested earlier the Trakrite is the way to go, finding a suitable flat surface is the only problem.
It gives repeatable readings, it has an area on the scale where it shows within acceptable error, I have used this to slightly increase toe in when experimenting with handling on my BSA Three wheeler.
You can also check rear wheels with it.
One strange thing, in the instructions it advises that the Trakrite should be placed against the front wheel being tested absolutely square.
I used to take a great deal of trouble with this. until on one occasion when my wife was helping me by driving the car while I did the adjustments. She drove over before I had finally set the gauge up.
It was completely out and to my amazement the reading still was correct.
Obviously the wheels were correctly set at this point so did not deflect the gauge.
regards Kels. |
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Julian
Joined: 19 Apr 2010 Posts: 278 Location: Warrington
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Posted: Fri Feb 03, 2012 10:42 am Post subject: Re: tracking alignment |
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Kelsham wrote: |
One strange thing, in the instructions it advises that the Trakrite should be placed against the front wheel being tested absolutely square.
regards Kels. |
I would think that is just Gunsons covering their rear ends. Without such an instruction somebody would probably orientate the thing 90 degrees off and take it back to the shop as 'not working!' I've always found that lining the thing up by eye more than good enough.
The proof of the pudding, for me, with the Trackrite has always been a car that behaves nicely and tyres that wear evenly - I'm not sure you can ask for any more than that
Julian. |
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Bitumen Boy
Joined: 26 Jan 2012 Posts: 1740 Location: Above the snow line in old Monmouthshire
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Posted: Sat Feb 04, 2012 9:59 pm Post subject: |
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This is a pretty interesting thread. I used to know a guy who reckoned he had tried the Trakrite and swore it was no good - he recommended a tyre place a few miles away who mucked it right up as always with the steering wheel canted right over, luckily it's an easy thing to put right on a Herald. I can't help thinking this guy maybe had an interest in that tyre place, and will probably look again at the Trakrite - tyre fitting and tracking are about the only things I farm out these days, and I object to paying £20+ for a botched tracking job that I invariably have to correct later.
Incidentally, has anyone seen that Practical Classics have a bit of a feature on wheel alignment in this month's issue? (Still available for us tightwads to read standing or leaning on a trolley in Tescos!) They have a few photos of a homemade tracking gauge made mostly of 2"x2" timber... I imagine it's possible to make something sufficiently accurate at home, but I'd want to use a more stable material - Lego, old coathangers, wet newspapers, anything really... |
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