Classic cars forum & vehicle restoration.

Humphrey · Joined: 28 May 2010 Posts: 18 Location: France 87

I came across this the other day. I am still trying to contact the owners.
It is 1964 6 cyl 8 Litres with eight forward gears. I believe it is the model called Esterel.
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1929 Austin 16/6 1948 Pontiacs (2) 1964 Someca Tractor (Fiat 411R)

Rick · Site Admin Joined: 27 Apr 2005 Posts: 22837 Location: UK

Wow that's quite a machine isn't it, I bet the mileage is tiny.

R
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Humphrey · Joined: 28 May 2010 Posts: 18 Location: France 87

You are dead right there, Rick. The mileage on the tacho is 53662 KM
(about 36,000 miles)
The diesel engine that drives the air pump for the tar heating looks good too. It also drives the tar pump.
The only things missing are the brakes compressor and the dash panel.
I think I would convert it to a beaver tail transporter as the chassis is so long.
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1929 Austin 16/6 1948 Pontiacs (2) 1964 Someca Tractor (Fiat 411R)

JC T ONE · Joined: 30 Oct 2008 Posts: 1139 Location: Denmark

Now thats one BIG "toy" Cool

looks like it has been kept in a good dry place.
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poodge · Joined: 23 Nov 2007 Posts: 687

The Esterel was the cabover type.This is an Izoard.
I hope this one was more reliable than the Esterel,they were hopeless.

Humphrey · Joined: 28 May 2010 Posts: 18 Location: France 87

This is deffo an Esterel as the model number is MZ125. The Esterel with the cab over is a MZ124
The Izoard (MZ221) is 8 cylinders and has a longer bonnet.
The Izoard with the cab over is the MZ222
They all suffered from chronic under power until the V8 and V6 with turbo was introduced.
This is from the Charge Utile magazine No 60.
There is another issue with all the models tabulated, but I have yet to find it.

See here http://magnum31gb.skyrock.com/19.html
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1929 Austin 16/6 1948 Pontiacs (2) 1964 Someca Tractor (Fiat 411R)

Humphrey · Joined: 28 May 2010 Posts: 18 Location: France 87

At last I found the owner and he agreed to sell it to me for its steel scrap value.
A couple of things that I need to know are regarding the tyres. They are shown in the hand book as 12.00 x 20 X Michelin OR 6-20 Dunlop
Is there an equivalent?
I am also worried that I may not be able to tow it with my tractor as I think the brakes may be sprung on. The compressor has been robbed and there is no air available where it is.
The reason I am uncertain is that the brake cam levers are all against the adjustable stops.
I suppose I could get a strong enough hydraulic jack and try the wheels in turn.
The brake lever on the left of the driver has a Westinghouse logo on it and the mechanical handbrake in the centre of the cab is free to move up and down.
I thought that without air, the rear brakes would be sprung on.
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1929 Austin 16/6 1948 Pontiacs (2) 1964 Someca Tractor (Fiat 411R)

47Jag · Posted: Wed Dec 19, 2012 8:56 pm Post subject:

Humphrey.

There is usually a way the release the brakes without air. As far as I can remember there is a rubber plug in the centre of the air chamber and it takes a threaded rod. I haven't worked on trucks since '74 so the old memory is hazy. I think the thread is 1/2 UNC but I'm not certain. Screw in the rod with a large washer and nut, wind the nut down to pull/compress the internal spring thereby releasing the brakes. So you will need a rod for each air chamber. About 9" should be long enough.

Art

Humphrey · Joined: 28 May 2010 Posts: 18 Location: France 87

Thanks Art. I am not sure if this one is like that as the levers are already against the adjusters, which seems to me like they are off and not on.
(would the adjusters be there to adjust the slack?)
I already wasted a whole bottle of nitrogen.
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1929 Austin 16/6 1948 Pontiacs (2) 1964 Someca Tractor (Fiat 411R)

47Jag · Posted: Wed Dec 19, 2012 11:33 pm Post subject:

Humphrey,

Yes that's what they are known as...Slack adjusters.

I was having a think Surprised

There may be a bolt head under the rubber plug on the air chamber ans it's that that you turn. It's been a while since I've seen one Confused

Art

Humphrey · Joined: 28 May 2010 Posts: 18 Location: France 87

These are not the usual diaphragm/ doughnut type that one usually sees but proper cylinders with a gaiter and spindle.
The front brakes have one air inlet and the rears have one at each end.
If we can assume that the fronts are off and the levers are against the stops, then with the rear ones against the stops, they too are in the OFF position.
I am beginning to suspect that the perrot shaft that is operated by a "handbrake lever" is seized in the brakes off position which may explain why it is free to move up and down.
This makes more sense as I cannot find any manual over ride of the system like bolts as you mention.
There is also a Westinghouse lever on the side of the drivers seat facing the door.
Don't forget that this was 1964 and French.
Perhaps, in the event of a breakdown in narrow streets, they would want to be able to tow it quickly out of the way, so a driver operated override would make sense.
I just talked my way into this solution and I hope it is right.
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1929 Austin 16/6 1948 Pontiacs (2) 1964 Someca Tractor (Fiat 411R)

Humphrey · Joined: 28 May 2010 Posts: 18 Location: France 87

[img]

Robinet du frein de secours, is the Westinghouse lever.
Frein de main is of course, the handbrake which has no effect possibly due to a seized perrot shaft.[/img]
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1929 Austin 16/6 1948 Pontiacs (2) 1964 Someca Tractor (Fiat 411R)

Kenham · Joined: 12 Mar 2012 Posts: 209 Location: Kent

Hello, if my memory serves me right (which it might not) I dont think you have spring brakes on your lorry. The Westinghouse lever is Ithink a "deadman" which is just an air handbrake which is why you have a mechanical handbrake as well. The Russian dumptrucks I used to drive had the same type of system and if you just left them parked with the deadman on, when the air ran out they would roll away. On occasions if left in gear they would start in the night and drive themselves off . When we have moved lorrys which have been left a few years a large sledge hammer on the rear wheels is usually enough to break the rust holding the shoes to the drum as long as the handbrake is not on off course. Hope this might be of some use to you. Ken. ps If you were a bit nearer I would come and help as I like a challenge

Humphrey · Joined: 28 May 2010 Posts: 18 Location: France 87

I am starting to ponder again if I got it wrong.
Look at the top picture and see the adjusting screw. Would that be to get the lever to operate at 90%?
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1929 Austin 16/6 1948 Pontiacs (2) 1964 Someca Tractor (Fiat 411R)

Kenham · Joined: 12 Mar 2012 Posts: 209 Location: Kent

I stand by what I said after looking at the pictures, the cylinders push out when the footbrake is used. The mechanical handbrake pulls out the cylinders, and the Westinghouse (deadman) also pushes out the cylinders but I would think within a different part of the cylinder. This is for stopping when the air fails but you have enough air in the Westinghouse air tank to bring things to a stop. I am sure you dont have spring brakes on there so you should be able to tow it. If the ajusters are on the stops perhaps you have new brake shoes in there. Ken