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Tips for rust removal
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Vifa



Joined: 27 Jul 2011
Posts: 21

PostPosted: Sun Feb 24, 2013 3:14 pm    Post subject: Tips for rust removal Reply with quote

Hi,

I am working on my Dodge from 1949, it is in an excellent shape, but nevertheless, it has some minor rust spot under the carpet at the driver's and passenger's side that need attention.

I have bought a wire wheel to grind it. Should I be aware of anything before I begin ? Keep in mind that I am a rookie Smile

Any good advice on how to best remove the rust with a wire wheel ?
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colwyn500



Joined: 21 Oct 2012
Posts: 1745
Location: Nairn, Scotland

PostPosted: Sun Feb 24, 2013 5:20 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

First rule,, avoid wire wheel as any sparks may damage the windows and any fabrics.

If it is as good as your brief description implies, I would use a rust removing or converting liquid. Then cover with a good paint system.

A photo would help get you more accurate advice.
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Rick
Site Admin


Joined: 27 Apr 2005
Posts: 22782
Location: UK

PostPosted: Sun Feb 24, 2013 6:47 pm    Post subject: Re: Tips for rust removal Reply with quote

Vifa wrote:
Hi,

I am working on my Dodge from 1949, it is in an excellent shape, but nevertheless, it has some minor rust spot under the carpet at the driver's and passenger's side that need attention.

I have bought a wire wheel to grind it. Should I be aware of anything before I begin ? Keep in mind that I am a rookie Smile

...


Eye protection, not just to protect from pieces of rust flying about but also wires from the wheel detaching themselves.

RJ
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welshrover



Joined: 09 Aug 2011
Posts: 326

PostPosted: Sun Feb 24, 2013 9:58 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

dont use jenolite ive tried it and it was too say the least useless .it didnt change colour to the black it supposed to ,i followed the insructions to the letter.two days later it still not changed so i used vactan over it and it changed straight away. Smile i use vactan the military use it, also used on oil rigs etc .it starts in minutes to change colour and stops rust very well .
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colwyn500



Joined: 21 Oct 2012
Posts: 1745
Location: Nairn, Scotland

PostPosted: Sun Feb 24, 2013 10:35 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I used to use Jenolite a lot. It became harder to find especially in economical amounts.

The key rust-removing ingredient is phosphoric acid. There are a variety of compounds which can be researched on the internet, that contain this acid.

The best way to use it takes patience. It dissolves rust so you need to keep applying and re-applying using abrasion with a wire brush in between times. Try not to let it dry out and aim for bright, although pitted steel as the end result. Don't give up or accept a blackened or whitened look. The end result might take days but will leave only the good steel and can be treated in the same way for protection.

In the past I have dipped fairly large items in a plastic barrel filled with gallons of dilute phosphoric.
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Kelsham



Joined: 18 Jan 2009
Posts: 349
Location: Llandrindod Wells Powys

PostPosted: Mon Feb 25, 2013 11:05 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Jenolite turns the surface grey if used as instructed.

I keep returning to it after using all the wonder treatments, I use it as part of the treatment with Bonda primer. Both are still available on Ebay.

I use a polycarbide wheel to mechanically clean the surface, thorough cleaning helps the next step. Rust will remain in the pitted surface.

I apply Jenolite and then using a small wire brush agitate it whilst it is still wet. A brown stain will appear on the surface. keep brushing.

Then wipe clean and apply more Jenolite and repeat. After several applications the jenolite will remain clean. let it work and apply a jenolite rag as advised in the instructions. Once dry apply Bondaprimer.

Rust convertors like Vactan, Hydrate 80, Fe123, and Kurust, only convert the surface and lock the rust in beneath a latex like coating.

In difficult situations where rust is difficult to treat with Jenolite I sometimes use them.

I tried Rust Bullet, this is applied over rust and is supposed to keep air from it. I found the viscosity in the tins varied and it tended to give off bubbles, It also rusted through after a couple of years.

After treating the rust prime and paint as soon as possible, bear in mind most primers are porous and will not protect a treated surface for long.

When I began working on cars in the 1960s I was told rust cannot be stopped, cut it out, this still goes, but it can be contained if not rusted through the panel.
Hope this advice helps, Regards kels.
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ukdave2002



Joined: 23 Nov 2007
Posts: 4232
Location: South Cheshire

PostPosted: Mon Feb 25, 2013 3:00 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

If you go to any paint shop , you can buy 40% solution phosphoric acid, 5L will cost you about £20, you would spend 10 times that on proprietary rust stabilisers.

H&S don't like it because care needs to be taken when using it (use goggles in case of splashes) and its not environmental friendly; they would much you use a prefer a water based product like Vactan.

I always wipe clean steel panels with it even if they are bright, you would be amazed at the dark patches that appear within a couple of mins Shocked

No product actually kills rust, it only ever converts it it to something more stable, the source of the problem needs to be addressed, otherwise it will return.

Epoxy primers seem a good move as they don't absorb moisture like many other primers do.

Dave
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colwyn500



Joined: 21 Oct 2012
Posts: 1745
Location: Nairn, Scotland

PostPosted: Mon Feb 25, 2013 4:27 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Dave, I do find that phosphoric will remove rust completely if you give enough coats and enough time. I know what you mean though, five minutes after clearing it , rust could be starting again even if only at a microscopic level.
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Vifa



Joined: 27 Jul 2011
Posts: 21

PostPosted: Mon Feb 25, 2013 10:33 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Hi everyone, thanks for all the fast replies. It is a really great help for someone like me that is new to this world.

As requested in one of the first post, here comes a photo.



Uploaded with ImageShack.us
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Vifa



Joined: 27 Jul 2011
Posts: 21

PostPosted: Wed Feb 27, 2013 9:18 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

[Colwyn500] I must agree, I don't have much experience with this, but I used a rust remover when I detailed my car radio. It ended up with very good results which exceeded my expectations.





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colwyn500



Joined: 21 Oct 2012
Posts: 1745
Location: Nairn, Scotland

PostPosted: Wed Feb 27, 2013 9:26 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Hi Vifa. That's just the way I have been able to get things. We know it just takes patience.
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Kelsham



Joined: 18 Jan 2009
Posts: 349
Location: Llandrindod Wells Powys

PostPosted: Thu Feb 28, 2013 9:42 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Yes sadly there is no shortcut to removing rust, good hard work and patience is the only way.

The upside of using Jenolite is that you can wire brush when using it and startle yourself when more brown stains appear on the surface.

Regards Kels.
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Vifa



Joined: 27 Jul 2011
Posts: 21

PostPosted: Sat Mar 02, 2013 11:52 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I was suggested this yesterday, just wanted to share it with your: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tcjfV8zs0Dk

Sodablasting does not damge the surface, rubber or glass. I ordered one of these, so I will give it a try Smile
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ukdave2002



Joined: 23 Nov 2007
Posts: 4232
Location: South Cheshire

PostPosted: Sat Mar 02, 2013 12:36 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Vifa wrote:
I was suggested this yesterday, just wanted to share it with your: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tcjfV8zs0Dk

Sodablasting does not damge the surface, rubber or glass. I ordered one of these, so I will give it a try Smile


Looks promising; Smile let us know how you get on, ....... Never used soda before, I have a pot grit blaster, seemed like a great idea when I bought it...but the mess it creates !!! Shocked it can really only be used outside, or in a workshop that has nothing else in so the debris can be swept up.

Dave
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Kelsham



Joined: 18 Jan 2009
Posts: 349
Location: Llandrindod Wells Powys

PostPosted: Sun Mar 03, 2013 9:05 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I bought a small cabinet, the cheapest on the market, it's stood in the corner.

When in use it managed to leak dust from every seam. the bottom needs to be funnel shaped to gather the media.

On the cheap one it had a v shape and media lodged every where except where needed.

I had to wear a mask to stop breathing in the dust it leaked.

Couldn't see much due to dust build up behind the perspex viewing window.

Fitted a vacuum cleaner to it that helped a bit.

Went back to the old ways, Jenolite and Bonda primer.

Regards Kels.
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